BlooContraGuy Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 I'm honestly not very concerned about the brass caption at Vanguard. Andre is a phenomenal educator, but the staff coming in has plenty of experience with horn lines and will do their best to keep the brass caption going strong for them. I actually find the fact that Paul Rennick is moving to Vanguard to be much more interesting. I'm VERY excited for their percussion caption and I hope that they can move back up into the top 4 or higher with these changes (even if I still ultimately want to beat my friends who call Vanguard their home ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roosevelt Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 I'm honestly not very concerned about the brass caption at Vanguard. Andre is a phenomenal educator, but the staff coming in has plenty of experience with horn lines and will do their best to keep the brass caption going strong for them. I actually find the fact that Paul Rennick is moving to Vanguard to be much more interesting. I'm VERY excited for their percussion caption and I hope that they can move back up into the top 4 or higher with these changes (even if I still ultimately want to beat my friends who call Vanguard their home ). Percussion program will be in great shape. I am not sold on the brass team though. They do have lots of experience, but it is all at one place (cavaliers) doing it one way (The UH way). I don't believe that way is rewarded anymore in this activity and I don't know how that will gel with Rennick's way of doing things. Rennicks lines are so expressive and musical, and the cavaliers hornlines of old (with the UH guys) were not. They did play incredibly in tune and with matched sounds, but I would not really call them expressive. So, we will see.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PepsiTwist Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 (edited) Go back and listen to the brass in 99 and tell me 2010 was an improvement. Umm... that '99 horn line did not sound very good. And I'm not talking about fracked solos in finals. A bit too edgy and overblowing most of that show. One of the worst horn lines to win DCI, besides Cavies 92/95. But I didn't think 2010 was AS good as some of the other lines in the past 10 years. I think the music arranging had something to do with that. I think 2008/2009 may have been the best lines/books for Vanguard in years. Edited September 16, 2010 by PepsiTwist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Umm... that '99 horn line did not sound very good. And I'm not talking about fracked solos in finals. A bit too edgy and overblowing most of that show. One of the worst horn lines to win DCI, besides Cavies 92/95.But I didn't think 2010 was AS good as some of the other lines in the past 10 years. I think the music arranging had something to do with that. I think 2008/2009 may have been the best lines/books for Vanguard in years. That trophy goes to 84 Cadets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 That trophy goes to 84 Cadets And as usual .. the Elitists of DCP continue to FAIL in recognizing when PASSION outweighs technical proficiency. If 99 SCV and 84 Garfield were that terrible then how did the corps win? Secondly, how was it that 84 Garfield was considered one of the best hornlines in DCI history for nearly 2 decades after that performance? It was a different era with different reasons for performing ....... their motivation was not to sound like they were sitting in chairs in a concert hall. The motivation was to thrill people with raw energy deep passion in their performances. I'll turn my nose DOWN to your comments ..... because I would rather them make my pulse race than do their best to sound like a synthesized FINALE file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraRich77 Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 No offense to anyone who WAS working with SCV, but it'd be great if they could assemble a staff with people who know how to/have won DCI before... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 And as usual .. the Elitists of DCP continue to FAIL in recognizing when PASSION outweighs technical proficiency. If 99 SCV and 84 Garfield were that terrible then how did the corps win? Secondly, how was it that 84 Garfield was considered one of the best hornlines in DCI history for nearly 2 decades after that performance? It was a different era with different reasons for performing ....... their motivation was not to sound like they were sitting in chairs in a concert hall. The motivation was to thrill people with raw energy deep passion in their performances. I'll turn my nose DOWN to your comments ..... because I would rather them make my pulse race than do their best to sound like a synthesized FINALE file. I guess you answered your own question. The passion (er, performance) and new-ness of the designs pulled them through. Similar to PR 2008. I guess there's one every decade. FWIW, I loved 99 SCV. I'm happy for you that you can feel passion through technical garbage. I cannot. I wish I could, seriously. It's quite a burden when I go to professional orchestra concerts and all I can hear is every glitch. Missing notes is not an issue, unless it's placed at the wrong spot, or just too many per minute. Bad intonation is never justified, IMO. Nor is bad timing, nor bad sound. But hey, if you're cool with subjective passion as a trade for all of those more-or-less objective technical issues, more power to you. I can't hear passion when I'm surrounded with technical imperfection. It's all about expectation. When I go to a Junior High concert, my expectations are set accordingly. If they meet the expectation, all good. If they surpass the expectation, I'll truly enjoy myself! My expectations for Top 3 Drum Corps at Finals and Professional Orchestra are the same: They had better play together, with the right sound, in tune and not miss notes, or I'm going to be annoyed. Don't get me wrong...it's entirely possible for all of those conditions to be met, and still be disappointed (happens with Blue Devils every year, lol) It is what it is. Seriously, I TRY to lower my expectations, lol. When I went to music school, my teacher, Per Brevig, had a fundamental rule: "If it doesn't sound good, I don't want to hear it." Didn't matter how technically proficient you were, if you couldn't make a good sound, in tune with yourself (let alone others), it didn't matter how "musical" you were. This is where Cadets 84 loses me. But I can understand how some people think Cadets 84 was amazing. You can tell Cadets didn't even CARE, and that's what excites people. "We're going to do it our way, no matter what. We have the visual design, and you will love us." Again, it only works once every decade it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersop Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Garbage? Seriously? If you guys want to constantly hold drum corps to professional performance level standards ... considering it's 65 - 80+ brass performers and they're moving ........ you're out of your minds. Have some done better? Of course. Was 99 SCV's hornline garbage? Or 84 Garfield? NO .. and if you think you're right by saying so I invite you to say it to their faces. Sitting and moving are two different standards. Getting paid to be a professional musician and paying for the honor of wearing a uniform and getting great instruction are different standards. I'm sure every show I ever marched was garbage by your definition ....... right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbevillekid26 Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 (edited) Lol garbage? If I didn't know better that would sound like a hyperbolic insult from an upset member of their competition that year. The thing is I agree with you in some ways, especially about 2008 phantom and your overall point. It's just when you call garfield 84 "technical garbage" and it is well known that you marched against them that year, you come off as a dick. Edited September 17, 2010 by Abbevillekid26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Garbage? Seriously? Lol garbage? If I didn't know better that would sound like a hyperbolic insult from an upset member of their competition that year. First of all, 1999 SCV and 2008 PR did not even win brass. 1984 Cadets did...3-way tie with SCV and BD. So I have my Jim Ott. I'm happy to share it with BD...they were completely awesome, and should've been #1, alone,then SCV, then PR, then Cadets (I guess...didn't hear anyone else) I have no problem being objective, especially after 26 years. The Promise of Living from 1984 will go down as one of the best "pushes" of all time. La Fiesta will go down as one the best "concerts" ever. Cadets' Tonight was transcendent overall, setting standards for design and coordination that some modern corps still can't match. Cadets deserved the win! I already said I'm jealous that y'all can listen to Cadets 84 and hear excellence. I also explained why I can't. I don't know where else to go from here, except to invite you over for some beer and critical listening sessions. I'm in NE Ohio...where are y'all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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