1983

[G-Rott]

They never seemed to recover from July 16th...what happened between the 9th and the 16th?

July 9, 1983

Hanover, PA

1. Westshoremen 80.250

2. Bushwackers 65.450

3. Buccaneers 62.350

4. Archer Epler Musketeers 60.250

July 16, 1983

East Rutherford, NJ

1. Sunrisers 78.250

2. Skyliners 76.200

3. Westshoremen 74.850

4. Buccaneers 60.800

5. L 'Odyssee 60.250

[Jeff Ream]

follow along the Westshoremen thread, as several members from those years are breaking down things from 82, and 83 will eventually follow.

looking at it, for one, consider the competition between the two shows. Bucs and Westshore's scores both went down, so some of the number issues were a bit of inflation the week before.

another fun one is looking at Columbia PA on 8/25/90, beating Empire by 1.3 ( 92.9 to 91.6) and then a week later at finals losing by .9 (95.2 to 94.3)...spread at prelims was bigger (2.5, losing to Empire 96.8 to 94.3)

[Fran Haring]

follow along the Westshoremen thread, as several members from those years are breaking down things from 82, and 83 will eventually follow.

looking at it, for one, consider the competition between the two shows. Bucs and Westshore's scores both went down, so some of the number issues were a bit of inflation the week before.

another fun one is looking at Columbia PA on 8/25/90, beating Empire by 1.3 ( 92.9 to 91.6) and then a week later at finals losing by .9 (95.2 to 94.3)...spread at prelims was bigger (2.5, losing to Empire 96.8 to 94.3)

Wasn't Empire's 96.8 score at Finals in 1990? I remember they lost to Bushwackers by one tenth that night.

[BigW]

A lot of factors went into that season for us, I think. I'm barely getting into what went on in '82 from my perspective, and I'll say that '83 was an incredibly frustrating season for Westshore and I think in great part led to the effective collapse of the corps in '84 for several seasons until it fionally made its way back into finals again.

I believe that in '82 and '83, our winter programs allowed us to get far ahead of everyone. We had momentum, but I'll say in Sun's behalf that their experience, maturity, and the fact that they must have rehearsed better than we did in the home stretch got them ahead of us. In '82, I'm certain we learned that just because we had a lead, that there should have been show tweaks regardless. No one told us there were problems, the staff kept the show as is while Sun worked hard to make adjustments and moved in. I think we tried to tweak more aggressively in '83 having learned this... but... it seemed largely futile. Like '81... it seemed we couldn't do anything to get out of where we were and get no traction once they had us in that slot.

I also think DCA wasn't truly ready for us in some ways. It didn't help. We in many ways were the future of the activity and the Old Guard were flat out terrified by us and what we represented. A much, much younger corps doing more intellectual things. Sun was also very similar, but also had an older average age, more of those old cool heads on the field, and a heck of lot more DCA tradition than we did. Their innovative but more careful and conservative approach was a clear advantage they had- more accessible to the judges and to certain fans.

There was also management turmoil mixed up in it, and I think it shook us more than it should have. I have a feeling many corps members gave up around mid-July in their hearts and figured the fork had been stuck in us, we were done. I'd say there were some of us that put our heads down and kept running, while there were orthers that seemed to have had the spirit knocked clean out of them.

We also had a lot of new people join in '83. All of a sudden we were real popular- wonder why, eh!? Most all of them were fantastic corps-mates from other corps and people who I squeeze like tubes of toothpaste when I see them- which is why many of them run when they see me. A couple individuals in particular, however, brought a lot of drama and a consequent serious disruption of the corps zen for a lack of better terms. They really hurt the corps more than I think some people realize. We're talking a T.O. kind of poison to our corps cameraderie here, and we never had that kind of camaeraderie that a corps like the Cabs has to begin with- something that is a rock-hard pillar for the Cabs that enables them to weather anything. One person was so bad I literally went to sleep on the bus sitting behind them thinking while they were kvetching about everyone in the corps and how they all sucked to their friend...- "If (they) say ONE more rotten thing about my corps feiends, I'll KILL (them)!!!!" I was told later when I woke up for breakfast that this individual started up again around 6 AM, and I got up in my sleep and nearly strangled them, droning "I'll kill you!" over and over again, then sat back down in the bus and went back to sleep... I don't remember it, guys in the hornline told me while I ate, said it was too bad I didn't actually kill this person. They hoped I would have for the bus entertainment and also to get rid of this individual.

Evidently, the Bucs understand these kinds of issues have no place, police themselves pretty intensely, and root out that kind of crap. Hence- 6 in a row, while we went to straight to oblivion for several years.

So there yah have it. There's how to take a corps that could have, maybe perhaps should have won 2 DCA titles and maybe won a few more after that, and drive it into the ground like a Jart. I'd say our corps is a good cautionary tale and case study for many to learn from as to what TO do, and what NOT to do.

So, young and old Padawans, there's the tale in a nutshell of what heppened when Westshore ended up afflicted by the Dark Side.

[Jeff Ream]

Wasn't Empire's 96.8 score at Finals in 1990? I remember they lost to Bushwackers by one tenth that night.

oh i think I did have em backwards. oops

[Fran Haring]

I saw Westshore and Sun on several occasions in 1983.... it was my first year not marching.

IMO, the huge difference between both corps that season was in percussion.

Sun's drum line was awesome, with one of the best snare lines ever... and I mean anywhere, DCI, DCA, pre-DCI, pre-DCA... in particular. Westshore's percussion section was not even close to Sun's. No offense meant to anyone from 'Shore who marched in the drum line that year.

Honestly, there was one show in particular at which I thought Westshoremen could have/should have beaten Sun (not the first show of the season, where in fact Westshore DID beat Sun...Sunrisers' only loss that season, but the show I'm talking about was later in the season).... except for the difference in drums. Both corps had terrific horn lines, and again IMO I thought 'Shore had a better drill... at least from a design standpoint... that year.

Edited to add: Almost forgot....Sun's guard was excellent that year, too.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Fran Haring

[Fran Haring]

oh i think I did have em backwards. oops

Even still.... 'Shore's drop from basically leading the pack the weekend before, to 4th place, was....shall we say... a bit jarring. Weird.

[Jeff Ream]

Even still.... 'Shore's drop from basically leading the pack the weekend before, to 4th place, was....shall we say... a bit jarring. Weird.

yeah most of us aren't bitter much. I mean we won Scranton, and had the highest score in DCA the week before.

as for 83 and the drumline, I'd agree. Westshore had a killer tom line, but that's about it.

[rayfallon]

I saw Westshore and Sun on several occasions in 1983.... it was my first year not marching.

IMO, the huge difference between both corps that season was in percussion.

Sun's drum line was awesome, with one of the best snare lines ever... and I mean anywhere, DCI, DCA, pre-DCI, pre-DCA... in particular. Westshore's percussion section was not even close to Sun's. No offense meant to anyone from 'Shore who marched in the drum line that year.

Honestly, there was one show in particular at which I thought Westshoremen could have/should have beaten Sun (not the first show of the season, where in fact Westshore DID beat Sun...Sunrisers' only loss that season, but the show I'm talking about was later in the season).... except for the difference in drums. Both corps had terrific horn lines, and again IMO I thought 'Shore had a better drill... at least from a design standpoint... that year.

Edited to add: Almost forgot....Sun's guard was excellent that year, too.

1983 Westshore was a really interesting corps. One of the things you mention is sort of pivotal - i.e. Shore's drill. The question of better or worse is really out there because it was very "different" in my opinion from what DCA had put out there to date. That sort of thing makes those up and down vacillations in the more subjective captions like effect happen more. This is a reach but I think it's similar in theory to what happened to Star in 1993. Sometimes those really "new idea" shows are a roller coaster from the standpoint of how judges react. They're not wrong or right, they just don't agree with each other. It's too new. Just my opinion. The point that we're talking about it 27 years later certainly says that it was impactful.

I also think you're a tad harsh on Westshore's drum line. In some ways no one's percussion was really close to Sun's that year, but Westshore's line was a really good memorable line. Sort of like being the Sox playing against the Yankees in a year like this one - I'm sure there are better sports analogies but who really cares?

Edited September 17, 2010 by rayfallon

[Jeff Ream]

Ray, being taught by guys from that line and knowing many more, they'll agree with Fran