Jeff Ream Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 with current drill, dhutting CAN be necessary. it just doesnt need to be loud enough for the top 5 rows to hear. I actually have not heard anyone who knows who Frank is disagree with him on his point. I welcome the rest of you to ask your instructors/director of your corps who Frank is... I think that will put the issue into perspective for you. I am pretty sure he has been working with corps up until at least the last few years so even though he is a dinosaur his experience is certainly not out of date. You could do a lot worse than Frank as a role model for your Drum Corps experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 I actually have not heard anyone who knows who Frank is disagree with him on his point. I welcome the rest of you to ask your instructors/director of your corps who Frank is... I think that will put the issue into perspective for you. I am pretty sure he has been working with corps up until at least the last few years so even though he is a dinosaur his experience is certainly not out of date. You could do a lot worse than Frank as a role model for your Drum Corps experience. Look, I don't know frank, his resume speaks for itself, but as I mentioned earlier regardless of resume someones opinion is still just that. I would not encourage anyone to simply "believe" because a couple people say OH MEH GOD YOU LIKE TOTALLY DON"T KNOW WHO UR TALKIN BOUT HERE.... Frank, the Nobel Prize winning educator that I'm sure he is, should be aware of why it's necessary for drumlines to do it. If he isn't then IMO, regardless of years in, he is misinformed on the subject. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 "Dut dut dut dut dut" I get. Don't have a problem with that at all. It's "DUT DUT DUT DUT DUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!" that really grates on my nerves. Completely unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bari Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Has anyone seen this percussionists post? Dutting at ANY volume is Unnecessary... I was on the 5 yard line back in 1982 during Pegasus and NEVER did we dut! We just learned how to keep time together... Raising some interesting points about the interpretation of time. I once had a student who came in late on an attack. Asked why it was late and he said, "I was feeling it later than that." I reminded him that feeling your way around is something you do when you're blind. Players can learn to agree on silent time without audible or visual cues if they try. But, why make the effort when you can just listen to the dut? One of my favorite practice drills is to have players stand at a distance of 10-20 feet between with everyone facing away from everyone else. Start playing and see what happens, no conductor, no duts. When players can do that together, they'll be dangerous. Movement definitely interferes, so if they need a few duts, why not just write them in and have one guy play it? I think drummers are just into the bravado of dutting. And yes, if students are going to have to rehearse with a click, then I think students should learn how to play humanly with it. It's not measuring microseconds. It's learning how to feel the music in relation to consistent time. Making it feel like it's forging ahead (rushing) when it's not, or making it feel like it's laying back when it's actually right on the money. That's just an element of good musicianship. Or they can rush it like Coltrane. Will that sound good? Maybe if it's Coltrane. Aside from odd tempo changes and insane movement, the time of the next note is determined by those that came before it. When everyone fully gets that concept, the rest takes care of itself. It's measuring more than interpreting. When our "interpretation" of that measurement agrees, we are together. People are way better at measuring time than they give themselves credit for. But, it needs to be cultivated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 (edited) "Dut dut dut dut dut" I get. Don't have a problem with that at all. It's "DUT DUT DUT DUT DUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!" that really grates on my nerves. Completely unnecessary. I can almost deal with DUT DUT DUT DUT DUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!. It's DUT DUT DUT DUT DUT!!!!!!!!!!!!! that irritates me like a barbed wire loofa. Edited October 14, 2010 by Michael Boo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayfallon Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 with current drill, dhutting CAN be necessary. it just doesnt need to be loud enough for the top 5 rows to hear. Ah Geez Dhutting? a percussion pronunciation snob? Do you hold your pinky out while you hold your mallets? D hutting. (picture the British butler's accent - Sir John Gielgud.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayfallon Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Look, I don't know frank, his resume speaks for itself, but as I mentioned earlier regardless of resume someones opinion is still just that. I would not encourage anyone to simply "believe" because a couple people say OH MEH GOD YOU LIKE TOTALLY DON"T KNOW WHO UR TALKIN BOUT HERE.... Frank, the Nobel Prize winning educator that I'm sure he is, should be aware of why it's necessary for drumlines to do it. If he isn't then IMO, regardless of years in, he is misinformed on the subject. I just want to make sure I have this right. You refer to a Nobel prize to goof on the Grammys. Close? And then we get, in essence, I don't care where you played, who you taught, what you've done, if you don't agree with me (because what I say is an obvious fact, no matter who disagrees) you are misinformed? Is that close? Just want to make sure I understand what I'm snickering about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actucker Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Has anyone seen this percussionists post? Dutting at ANY volume is Unnecessary... I was on the 5 yard line back in 1982 during Pegasus and NEVER did we dut! We just learned how to keep time together... Its not about where you are on the field necessarily. Its about how quickly your listening and timing environment changes. Its physics. The farther you are from the drum major podium you are, the more you have to anticipate the beat in order to be in time. The drill for Pegasus in 1982 wasn't rapidly changing each member and sections position on the field, so for the most part, each section was only responsible for memorizing one particular way that the beat would feel. With modern drill responsibilities, not only is the physical demand of the marching far more intense, the changes in timing interpretation happen much faster, and with a much wider range. You have times when you see the battery cross the entire field in the matter of a few bars of music. Add in the fact that the tuning of the instruments has changed drastically, demanding a much higher level of attention to rhythm and timing that would not have been necessary in the era of mylar heads, and you can see the need for some communication on the field. I'll go back to my comparison to professional musicians. Give me one example of any professional ensemble that doesn't communicate in some way shape or form in order to come in together. It could be eye contact, it could be the physical act of breathing together. Some times its a conductor. Some times there is an actual count off or a solo introduction. But ALL music is communicating time between its performers somehow. If you don't think that is happening, then you aren't paying enough attention. If you really think you can stand people several feet apart, face them away from each other and teach them someone to play music together without any type of reference at all, then you have somehow discovered students with some form of ESP. In the case of marching music, it is no longer possible, with the current demands of modern drill to simply play with the conductor. Performers are too spread out, and their timing responsibilities change too quickly. The fact is, like it or not, some form of audible communication among section members is often necessary to achieve the level of precision that is expected. I'll say again, that I don't think it should bleed through. However, I would rather my students be learning to communicate with each other and have a few duts be heard than try to get them to perform in a bubble, and never learn to listen to each other. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BozzlyB Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Has anyone seen this percussionists post? Dutting at ANY volume is Unnecessary... I was on the 5 yard line back in 1982 during Pegasus and NEVER did we dut! We just learned how to keep time together... Ignorance sure is fun to observe. Another horn player talkin out their @ss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayfallon Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Ignorance sure is fun to observe. Another horn player talkin out their @ss. hey - you choose to hang around with musicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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