Inside the Arc - "The Dut Must Die"

[MikeD]

I am a percussionist and a musician.

Hmmm...I think the two are mutually exclusive!

...said this percussion major!

[rayfallon]

You're missing his point. He's not saying that Frank is ignorant about everything, or really anything disparaging about him. He's saying that someone without experience marching and teaching a drumline might not have the same experience or background in these kind of issues compared to actual percussion instructors. More generally, it's not a great idea to accept anyone's word as gospel just because they're famous or talented. Would you be saying the same thing if Frank disagreed with you? "Well, Frank Dorritie says it's this way, case closed. Go home everyone."? Of course not, you'd want to talk about it. That's what the people in this thread are doing, and it's why they don't appreciate being shut down with an appeal to authority.

Why is it that people assume that because you disagree with them you're missing some point or another.

I get his point. I believe he's wrong. And he is disparaging him by calling him a Nobel prize winning instructor. He has won Grammys (plural). And the answer is "he's just kidding around" and my answer is "Bull ####" because disparaging speech has been couched as kidding around forever. Look at business.

I get his point, such as it is. I disagree. I don't need it explained. I was there when they started dutting. I get it. I think it's stupid. No explanation necessary.

Edited October 16, 2010 by rayfallon

[MikeD]

I'm with you: as a current percussionist/teacher/arranger/judge, etc who marched in the snare line of a World Class drum corps and Independent World WGI ensemble in the late 90's, I don't want to hear dutting from the stands. It is a useful tool, sometimes a necessary tool, and while I understand that sometimes it might (will) bleed through a very quiet moment and be audible from the stands I prefer not to hear it.

That pretty much sums up my view...I think there are times when dutting is an appropriate tool (not crutch). I use it sparingly with the band I work with in very special spots...and I tell them to keep it low...not vocal to the 30th row of the stands.

[chris ncsu]

I loved the one year when the Cavaliers added the duts in the show as a gag. that was good use of dutting. Yes, dutting is important for a blind attack, but it only needs to be audible through the line not in the stands.

1999

[SteveRodrigues]

It is also rather interesting that in DCI the drum majors in the late 80s through the present often begin new songs without vocalizations yet we still have the duts.

That's because beginning songs with DM vocalizations goes completely against the principals of the speed of sound, and it's a great way to cause a bad ensemble attack. Imagine that you put a Dr Beat on the podium facing the corps and asked the corps to follow the Dr. Beat all play unison on beat 1... What would the attack sound like to the audience in the front stands?... Not so good, since the dr beat sound from the podium is reaching the players in the back of the field later than it reaches the players in the front, making the players in the back come in after the players in front. That then compounds with the time it then takes the back players' sound to reach the front... and voila...bad sounding attack. Replace the Dr Beat with a DM, and you get the same effect. (BTW - What would it sound like from the back stands? A solid unison attack).

There are so many intricacies to making the modern marching ensemble work cohesively despite challenges of distance and sound travel - some of which may not have been very prevalent prior to the 90s. Honestly, many marching band programs (and some corps) would benefit from a manual or book on these basic principals and methods. For example, I've seen more than a few band directors or instructors out there that can't understand why their front ensemble is always ahead of the rest of the ensemble, and only yell louder at them to "WATCH THE DRUM MAJOR!!!"....

To get back on topic.... Dutting has certainly been abused or misused. But I truly believe most of the top level corps nowadays are making sure that Duts are not audible (It was MUCH worse in the early 90s). Some replace the Dut with a low grunt (mouth closed) when there is not enough ambient sound to cover up your 'standard' Dut. It serves its purpose, and still can not be heard from the audience.

[CrownStarr]

For example, I've seen more than a few band directors or instructors out there that can't understand why their front ensemble is always ahead of the rest of the ensemble, and only yell louder at them to "WATCH THE DRUM MAJOR!!!"....

[InspaDave]

There was a drum corps out of Bloomington Indiana that seemed to play well together and never used a Dr Beat at rehearsal in our drum corps years.

Uhhhh..... Are you sure about that? I have a lot of rehearsal footage of the '93 drumline (you know, the so-called greatest drumline ever) and there is always the doctor there to ruin what is otherwise great playing. Some of that footage is from a week or so before Finals.

[hornandsoccer]

There are so many intricacies to making the modern marching ensemble work cohesively despite challenges of distance and sound travel - some of which may not have been very prevalent prior to the 90s. Honestly, many marching band programs (and some corps) would benefit from a manual or book on these basic principals and methods. For example, I've seen more than a few band directors or instructors out there that can't understand why their front ensemble is always ahead of the rest of the ensemble, and only yell louder at them to "WATCH THE DRUM MAJOR!!!"....

It's best when guard techs scream this at the center marimba and the percussion caption head flies down the scaffolding faster than you'd ever seen him run.

[SACMellos2010]

InspaDave-

not during full ensemble. Hornline was always watch the drum major and play with their hands.

[Jeff Ream]

It's best when guard techs scream this at the center marimba and the percussion caption head flies down the scaffolding faster than you'd ever seen him run.

or judges that should know better saying it on tape