F-15

[thirdcoast]

Are the F-15 gonna do anything special at there shows this year? Or are they just gonna do nothing? Any ideas other than beer, and maybe some help on a name for the 15. BIG 15 just came to mind but not to hip on it. Idea I had was on the 8 nights where they were not included, at all the other shows put on a full retreat. I kinda think they need to do something even if it is BEER! What do you think?

[BRASSO]

Are the F-15 gonna do anything special at there shows this year? Or are they just gonna do nothing? Any ideas other than beer, and maybe some help on a name for the 15. BIG 15 just came to mind but not to hip on it. Idea I had was on the 8 nights where they were not included, at all the other shows put on a full retreat. I kinda think they need to do something even if it is BEER! What do you think?

'Not sure about the other F- 15 Fighters , but fans this year seem equally divided on whether or not INT should do beer.

[brassEXPERT]

Are the F-15 gonna do anything special at there shows this year? Or are they just gonna do nothing? Any ideas other than beer, and maybe some help on a name for the 15. BIG 15 just came to mind but not to hip on it. Idea I had was on the 8 nights where they were not included, at all the other shows put on a full retreat. I kinda think they need to do something even if it is BEER! What do you think?

They will probably figure out what their next step is to trying to make it a G9, G10, or kick corps out of their current positions. If you didn't get the memo, the G8 is kinda where the party is right now in DCI. I really don't think thats corps in the NG-8(not G-8) or F-15(Failing 15) are trying to stay there, much less shed light on the fact that they do not draw as much money into the activity as the rest of the top 8 corps. Look at the attendance of Open Class corps shows versus those of world class, and then look at the attendance of shows that only include one member of the G8 versus those that include multiple members. The results are similar - a little amount of people to a lot more amount of people.

The point of the G8 shows is to do something special to appeal to a larger audience with the best talent that DCI has to offer. If the F-15, or whatever you want to call them, do something different at their special, "Were not included!" shows - it defeats the purpose of pointless hours of arguing on DCP!

Keep it old school boys and girls - lets not feed this and try to make two separate drum corps circuits (That will ruin things further from the good old days that all the dinos love so much). These shows are experimental, and they need the top corps to give them a try before they even have the option of making the changes to the entire activity.

[va9590jm]

I would like to see full retreats, especially at that Erie show that's basically everyone that's the same night as a G8 show elsewhere. That'd be awesome to see.

[audiodb]

If you didn't get the memo, the G8 is kinda where the party is right now in DCI. I really don't think thats corps in the NG-8(not G-8) or F-15(Failing 15) are trying to stay there, much less shed light on the fact that they do not draw as much money into the activity as the rest of the top 8 corps.

And how do you determine how much money is drawn by 1-8 vs. 9-23? Oh, that's right - you can't. DCI draws much of their revenue based on the size and scope of their entire participant base. All 46 corps contribute to that "draw". Good luck trying to determine what portion of that revenue "belongs" to any one of those corps.

Look at the attendance of Open Class corps shows versus those of world class, and then look at the attendance of shows that only include one member of the G8 versus those that include multiple members.

Well, if you have already done this, show us the attendance numbers. But what would that prove, anyway?

Fact is, the "draw" of a DCI event cannot be attributed to the individual corps. Many people are drawn to DCI shows to see a contest; others go simply because there are several corps performing rather than just one. If any individual corps had singular drawing power, they would draw healthy crowds of paying customers all over the country when they perform alone. I don't see any DCI corps demonstrating that kind of drawing power.

[craiga]

They will probably figure out what their next step is to trying to make it a G9, G10, or kick corps out of their current positions. If you didn't get the memo, the G8 is kinda where the party is right now in DCI. I really don't think thats corps in the NG-8(not G-8) or F-15(Failing 15) are trying to stay there, much less shed light on the fact that they do not draw as much money into the activity as the rest of the top 8 corps. Look at the attendance of Open Class corps shows versus those of world class, and then look at the attendance of shows that only include one member of the G8 versus those that include multiple members. The results are similar - a little amount of people to a lot more amount of people.

The point of the G8 shows is to do something special to appeal to a larger audience with the best talent that DCI has to offer. If the F-15, or whatever you want to call them, do something different at their special, "Were not included!" shows - it defeats the purpose of pointless hours of arguing on DCP!

quote

Do you REALLY think that a corps like Boston has less talent and draws less of an audience based on the fact that it came in 9th in 2010? Accordingly, do you further suppose that BAC must have had MORE talent in 2009 simply because it placed 7th? I can tell you as a fact that was NOT the case.

The new G8 dynamic in DCI is what it is....but one should be careful not to assume that a judges' panel finding on one night in August necessarily means anything more than how they called the show on that particular night. They are evaluating the performance as they see fit...they are NOT evaluating talent level, audience draw, souvies sales, or anything other than the merits of the show.

Edited December 22, 2010 by craiga

[Gary Matczak]

I would like to see full retreats, especially at that Erie show that's basically everyone that's the same night as a G8 show elsewhere. That'd be awesome to see.

I doubt a full retreat is even possible,..........I see the corps competing, then heading down the road to the next stop, back to the housing facility to rehearse, or something,.........

[bass5]

I think the FU-15 may be more appropriate.

Beer works for me thirdcoast.

[BOBSMYTH]

... If you didn't get the memo, the G8 is kinda where the party is right now in DCI. I really don't think thats corps in the NG-8(not G-8) or F-15(Failing 15) are trying to stay there, much less shed light on the fact that they do not draw as much money into the activity as the rest of the top 8 corps. ...

So you are saying that corps #9, 10, etc don't have a fan following and don't generate revenue?

Does that apply to the Phantom Regiment who came in 9th in 2009? Did their fans suddenly say "Well, if the're only going to come in 9th, I'm not going"? Or does your assertion apply to the Phantom Regiment from 2010 when they were back in the top-8 - did they suddenly become relevant again?

Keep it old school boys and girls - lets not feed this and try to make two separate drum corps circuits (That will ruin things further from the good old days that all the dinos love so much). These shows are experimental, and they need the top corps to give them a try before they even have the option of making the changes to the entire activity.

Interesting - the G7 proposal actually wanted to divide all of DCI groups into 3 circuits: AAA, AA & A (and kick a bunch of Open Class corps to the curb in the process). Making separate circuits is exactly what the top 7 groups proposed as a large part of the answer to whatever problems they perceive to be out there.

[brassEXPERT]

And how do you determine how much money is drawn by 1-8 vs. 9-23? Oh, that's right - you can't. DCI draws much of their revenue based on the size and scope of their entire participant base. All 46 corps contribute to that "draw". Good luck trying to determine what portion of that revenue "belongs" to any one of those corps.

Well, if you have already done this, show us the attendance numbers. But what would that prove, anyway?

Fact is, the "draw" of a DCI event cannot be attributed to the individual corps. Many people are drawn to DCI shows to see a contest; others go simply because there are several corps performing rather than just one. If any individual corps had singular drawing power, they would draw healthy crowds of paying customers all over the country when they perform alone. I don't see any DCI corps demonstrating that kind of drawing power.

Not in terms of the DCI ticket sales, although you can definitely track this even though it wouldn't be as effective. individual corps sell blocks of tickets to the different major competitions, so it is actually possible to see whether a person purchased tickets from one of the top corps or directly from DCI. What would this prove? The whole purpose to starting a G8 in the first place. The fact that the top 8 corps are really keeping DCI alive right now financially. Now, I have marched with an open class, a lower world class, and an upper world class drum corps, and I can tell you from experience - the shows with the most people are the ones with the best corps, and the more top corps ALWAYS drew in more people.

On the contrary, many corps fill a football stadium for their preview events at the end of spring training. I was personally at the Cadets preview clinic last year, and saw that there was not much room in the stands, as well as a couple hundred people tuning in online to watch the corps perform PART of their show. Fact is, there is no FACT that says individual corps are not a part of the major draw for a DCI show. Not everybody in the audience goes to a show for the CONTEST purpose. Tell the parents of a member of the Jersey Surf from 2007 and 2008 when they went to the East Coast Classic as the lone open class corps that they actually came for the contest, and not to see their child perform. You can't assume that every paying member of a DCI audience is there to see everybody, and further to enjoy the competition. I really enjoyed Black Swan, but really, I went to see it because I think Natalie Portman is hot. They got my business because of Natalie Portman.

You always assume a number of different things in your posts, especially those that are a rebuttal to mine. Don't say something is FACT unless it is, in fact, FACT.

They will probably figure out what their next step is to trying to make it a G9, G10, or kick corps out of their current positions. If you didn't get the memo, the G8 is kinda where the party is right now in DCI. I really don't think thats corps in the NG-8(not G-8) or F-15(Failing 15) are trying to stay there, much less shed light on the fact that they do not draw as much money into the activity as the rest of the top 8 corps. Look at the attendance of Open Class corps shows versus those of world class, and then look at the attendance of shows that only include one member of the G8 versus those that include multiple members. The results are similar - a little amount of people to a lot more amount of people.

The point of the G8 shows is to do something special to appeal to a larger audience with the best talent that DCI has to offer. If the F-15, or whatever you want to call them, do something different at their special, "Were not included!" shows - it defeats the purpose of pointless hours of arguing on DCP!

quote

Do you REALLY think that a corps like Boston has less talent and draws less of an audience based on the fact that it came in 9th in 2010? Accordingly, do you further suppose that BAC must have had MORE talent in 2009 simply because it placed 7th? I can tell you as a fact that was NOT the case.

The new G8 dynamic in DCI is what it is....but one should be careful not to assume that a judges' panel finding on one night in August necessarily means anything more than how they called the show on that particular night. They are evaluating the performance as they see fit...they are NOT evaluating talent level, audience draw, souvies sales, or anything other than the merits of the show.

To answer your question, no. I actually know for a fact that the individual talent of a corps like the Boston Crusaders is actually more than even corps in the top 6. The Cadets have less talent than maybe even all of the corps in the top 8, although they manage to be a contender every year. I was merely talking about the quality of the performance of the corps, when I referenced talent. Talent that is, to demonstrate marching and paying at a high level every single year. The G8 does not have to do with the competitive results of last year, although it worked out that the G8 is the top 8 from last year. The G8 was formed on competitive principals that looked at the top 7 corps of the past couple of years, who was bringing in the most souvie money, who was bringing in the most people to competitions, and who was generating the most money for DCI. It was these corps that then decided any member that has successfully achieved the rank of one number lower than the current G format (i.e. G-7, and getting 8th place) for three years, could be included. The Blue Stars were able to get 8th place three times, so they were invited to be in the G8, which they certainly jumped on right away.