charlie1223 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Actually, I ignored them as they are one of the top 3. I only mentioned Cavies to support my argument. Brasso's thought was that (paraphrased) "people are sick of the same corps winning and want excitement back at the finals decision". My answer is...rise up to challenge the best and take it from them! As Boo pointed out in the sleeve notes on the DVD...this was the highest scoring top 12 in DCI history...the problem for so many of the challengers was that the top 3 took it up another notch. All of this is great for drum corps....not orchestrating selections for the sake of thrilling endings. I don't know why your in the negative rep... I agree with a lot of what your say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) The reality (idea) was that, as you can see, it was not "entirely competitive." It was actually implied "whatever the G7 corps want, via a vote." I provide slide 35 of the (obsolete) powerpoint for my citation, where it reads: Do you see this? This meant (imo) they could have moved any corps to wherever the f### they felt like, for whatever reason they felt like. Fixed! Edited January 23, 2011 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) Finally, your argument about "movement in placements", though factual , is flawed. This ain't T-ball. You win because you're the best...not because it's your turn. You want to drive away fans..go ahead and make a corps the champion that is not deserving simply for a new face or "excitement of the unpredictable". Yes, I know as well as anyone the ABBD sentiment at finals...I get it. I also know that won't change as long as it's in Indy. But giving the championship to the Cavies wouldn't satisfy your argument either, they're still one of those top 3. None of these comments square with the setting up of a Group Slotting System within the DCI World Class Competitive Division. Right from the get go, it creates an uneven, unfair, competitive environment. It advantages some World Class Division Corps to the disadvantage of others in the Division. It's a fundamentally flawed arrangement, imo. No competitor should be positioned competitively on the field of competition during the season based upon what they did LAST year... or the year before. Such a gamed system does not lend itself to fair and open competition where to paraphrase football " on any given Sunday, anything can happen ". If you want Corps to challenge the others to get better and beat the 3 Elites, then you should be against this Slotting System that's been put in place for this year. No group of Corps should be able to dictate the arrangements and the rules of engagement in competition. One would be hard pressed to find any other competitive sport or activity where what you did in past years advantages you this year on the field of competition. Other sports try and level the playing field by making the top teams go to the back of the line in the draft, and position the lowest teams to the front on Draft Day. What do we do in DCI by contrast ? We give the best from last year and the year before a BETTER DEAL by allowing them a leg up in competition for 2011 based upon what they did in 2010 or before. That's a rigged system, my friend, whether it's intentional or not. There's no two ways about it. No other sport would tolerate it. But if you like this" slotting " system that's been set up.... fine, no problem. Edited January 23, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I don't know why your in the negative rep... I agree with a lot of what your say! Being thought of negatively on DCP is very much a badge of honor for me...but for all the right reasons. I roam among these Dinos with ease and call them out when they vomit out their dino dust. I always make it a point not say anything bad about other corps....suggesting that if you can't say your post directly to the kids faces, then shut the.....up". It also doesn't help when your corps is smoking the competition, but there's nothing I or they (BD) can do about that ...it is what it is. BTW, I agree with a great deal of what you say as well....just don't look for the disgruntled to support your logic, at least not on these boards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 None of these comments square with the setting up of a Group Slotting System within the DCI World Class Competitive Division. Right from the get go, it creates an uneven, unfair, competitive environment. It advantages some World Class Division Corps to the disadvantage of others in the Division. It's a fundamentally flawed arrangement, imo. No competitor should be positioned competitively on the field of competition during the season based upon what they did LAST year... or the year before. Such a gamed system does not lend itself to fair and open competition where to paraphrase football " on any given Sunday, anything can happen ". If you want Corps to challenge the others to get better and beat the 3 Elites, then you should be against this Slotting System that's been put in place for this year. No group of Corps should be able to dictate the arrangements and the rules of engagement in competition. One would be hard pressed to find any other competitive sport or activity where what you did in past years advantages you this year on the field of competition. Other sports try and level the playing field by making the top teams go to the back of the line in the draft, and position the lowest teams to the front on Draft Day. What do we do in DCI by contrast ? We give the best from last year and the year before a BETTER DEAL by allowing them a leg up in competition for 2011 based upon what they did in 2010 or before. That's a rigged system, my friend, whether it's intentional or not. There's no two ways about it. No other sport would tolerate it. But if you like this" slotting " system that's been set up.... fine, no problem. Slotting (if actually used) used to help the judges judge "better". Looking at the corps in a cluster and deciding from that small group who's better then another. If you think the top 5 are slotted and say the the next 7 corps are slotted then you can think of it as competition within the slots. The corps that comes first in their slot would then move up to the next slot the following year. Frankly, I don't know if there is any proof of slotting going on, but in the long-run I don't think it hurts corps from moving around. Blue Stars and Crown especially are examples of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) None of these comments square with the setting up of a Group Slotting System within the DCI World Class Competitive Division. Right from the get go, it creates an uneven, unfair, competitive environment. It advantages some World Class Division Corps to the disadvantage of others in the Division. It's a fundamentally flawed arrangement, imo. No competitor should be positioned competitively on the field of competition during the season based upon what they did LAST year... or the year before. Such a gamed system does not lend itself to fair and open competition where to paraphrase football " on any given Sunday, anything can happen ". If you want Corps to challenge the others to get better and beat the 3 Elites, then you should be against this Slotting System that's been put in place for this year. No group of Corps should be able to dictate the arrangements and the rules of engagement in competition. One would be hard pressed to find any other competitive sport or activity where what you did in past years advantages you this year on the field of competition. Other sports try and level the playing field by making the top teams go to the back of the line in the draft, and position the lowest teams to the front on Draft Day. What do we do in DCI by contrast ? We give the best from last year and the year before a BETTER DEAL by allowing them a leg up in competition for 2011 based upon what they did in 2010 or before. That's a rigged system, my friend. There's no two ways about it. No other sport would tolerate it. But if you like this" slotting " system that's been set up.... fine, no problem. Follow the money my friend. These kids pay their own way, do NFL draftees do that? These kids have one thing in their quiver.....choice! Some choose family, or proximity or dream corps or competive desire to win or whatever....but it's their choice. When DCI starts to pay these kids... this will change.... oh yeah, that's gonna happen! You level the playing field by competent, creative designers and staff that stay with an organization long enough to build success. Again, this is a choice but it's built on a system that supports and treats staff in way that causes them to stay. The slotting system (as you call it) is a goal, each tier has goals within it and most corps at the top of their tier look to bust into the next level. You do this by design and performance. If you stay in the same tier location year after year....do better! No one is kept back despite thier performance...you may think, but it's just not true. The champions win because they're better in almost every way, so the way to fix that is to challenge them, be better! I think Mason and Fiedler understand this and are building. They won't need a draft to help them...they have something better....a plan and pure will! Edited January 23, 2011 by Plan9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 (edited) Follow the money my friend. These kids pay their own way, do NFL draftees do that? Well, as a matter of fact... " yes ". They're called NFL " Agents ". They negotiate the contracts for the NFL Draftees who pay them for this. But this seems unrelated from my central point above regarding the setting up of a slotting system that is based upon previous years performance placement, and advantages Corps in the new year to the detriment competitively, right from the outset, of the other Corps within the division for the new competitive season. Do you ( or anyone else here ) know of any other competitive sport(s) that automatically advantages a competitor(s ) in the new competitive season over other competitors based upon what they previously did in competition over a year or two ago ? I believe such an inherently flawed and unfair competitive system is unprecedented. Can we think of any others that do this ? Edited January 23, 2011 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Well, as a matter of fact... " yes ". They're called NFL " Agents ". They negotiate the contracts for the NFL Draftees who pay them for this. But this seems unrelated from my central point above regarding the setting up of a slotting system that is based upon previous years performance placement, and advantages Corps in the new year to the detriment competitively, right from the outset, of the other Corps within the division for the new competitive season. Do you ( or anyone else here ) know of any other competitive sport(s) that automatically advantages a competitor(s ) in the new competitive season over other competitors based upon what they previously did in competition over a year or two ago ? I believe such an inherently flawed and unfair competitive system is unprecedented. Can we think of any others that do this ? They're clustering the best corps to create interest and seek out new fan base. If a venue wants to fill the stands for a rock concert they get the draw groups. Doing this assures a better chance at attracting fans to their activity. If the venue in a specific town has a great drum corps event with top corps and it causes buzz, the next time a regular dc event occurs it just might mean a better result. At the very least it will spread out #### hot dc events like Murfeesborough to different locales throughout the country and everyone will eventually benefit. Thank heaven someone is trying to spread the best of dc around the country and prime the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 They're clustering the best corps to create interest and seek out new fan base. If a venue wants to fill the stands for a rock concert they get the draw groups. Doing this assures a better chance at attracting fans to their activity. If the venue in a specific town has a great drum corps event with top corps and it causes buzz, the next time a regular dc event occurs it just might mean a better result. At the very least it will spread out #### hot dc events like Murfeesborough to different locales throughout the country and everyone will eventually benefit. Thank heaven someone is trying to spread the best of dc around the country and prime the pump. So... the answer to my question above from you is... " I don't know of any " ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 Do you ( or anyone else here ) know of any other competitive sport(s) that automatically advantages a competitor(s ) in the new competitive season over other competitors based upon what they previously did in competition over a year or two ago ? I believe such an inherently flawed and unfair competitive system is unprecedented. Can we think of any others that do this ? What evidence can you provide that proves this is true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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