Live or Fade Away

[Hrothgar15]

For example, many posters who marched in the eighties and nineties will state that they are all for the activity "growing into the future" but they will state in the same paragraph that they want to "revert back to G bugles".

I fail to see the contradiction. Virtually zero performing groups in the world use these unique instruments. You want innovation? Try something that almost no one has seen or heard before, and see what they think. There's one surefire way to never gain mainstream acceptance, and that's by associating drum corps with scholastic marching band. Once you have a unqiue brand and identity, then you're talking.

Edited January 29, 2011 by Hrothgar15

[BOBSMYTH]

Don't you remember? DCI was selling 70,000 tickets to Finals back then, and the records from Finals were always topping Billboard's charts.

It's always been a niche activity. The niche now might be smaller, but not appreciably so (the crowds at VFW Finals were there because it was part of a much bigger convention, not because drum corps was considered mainstream entertainment).

It's been pointed out a million times that the audience for drum corps is people who are involved, or were involved in doing it. You want bigger audiences, increase the number of corps and participants. Any strategy that doesn't focus on creating new corps is wasting time.

To engage as many people as possible is one of the key themes of DCI's current business plan.

Two of the tactical initiatives talk about how to encourage new corps and how to increase the number of participants in existing corps.

How many corps (including Open Class) marched less than 150 members? There are large number of opportunities for additional participants just by utilizing those open positions that are already available.

[Stu]

(I wanted to give a public "oops" to Stu for giving him a green instead of a red for liking his comment above. Please forgive me for ignoring your signature, Stu. I'll do better next time! I like what you had to say very much, so in this case green meant good. Sorry!)

Thanks Terri! I think this green-red thing is a joke, so I have fun with it! But thanks anyway for the green!

[Stu]

First off, Lady GaGa has chosen to completely waste her talent. She makes me more angry than any other artist in mainstream music today. Most of them don't have any talent to begin with, so I can't really blame them for making stupid and awful music.

Now that that's out of the way, this whole "entertainment vs tradition" thing is a tricky line to walk. On one hand, DCI seems determined to try to fill up gigantic stadiums. On the other hand, if you morph the activity too far towards trying to draw (for lack of a better term) normal people, you risk alienating those who have always followed the activity. I have to say, I've been a drum corps fan all my life, but if DCI were to dumb things down in order to try to draw a crowd, I'd stop following it altogether. I'm definitely not alone in that feeling. At some point, the activity stops being what it was, and loses all of the elements that made you love it in the first place. Maybe DCI would be ok with that, but I think they'd risk the very thing they are afraid of (the death of the activity) from a different angle. I certainly don't have a problem with DCI trying to draw a bigger crowd, and gain more exposure, but they've got to temper their expectations. We are, and always will be a niche market. Perhaps we can expand the niche, but we need to be careful to maintain the integrity of the activity. By all means, try to be entertaining, but don't sacrifice the musical or visual demand. Don't sacrifice what you are teaching your members for the sake of ticket sales, because the marching members of today will be our grandkids' band directors and private teachers.

Wow; what a way to be condescending not only to great human beings who like the music of Lady GaGa, but also to musicians like Alex Van Halen, Jimi Hendrix, Danny Elfman, Kenny Aronoff, and all of the other classically trained musicians who did nothing more than enjoy their craft by playing what you call stupid and awful music like Lady GaGa to all of those "dumb ole" rock fans!

[soccerguy315]

First off, Lady GaGa has chosen to completely waste her talent. She makes me more angry than any other artist in mainstream music today. Most of them don't have any talent to begin with, so I can't really blame them for making stupid and awful music.

I understand why you say she is wasting her talent... but, it is worth noting that some people would describe what she is doing as maximizing her earning potential. If you had the chance to make $100,000/year in an orchestra (I'm not really sure how much orchestra musicians get paid), or $100,000,000* in 2011 alone, which would you choose?

*forbes projection

Edited January 29, 2011 by soccerguy315

[garfield]

Ahhh, but remember Master Orderone Cannoli that 5,000 wine spillers are the maximum number who attend any given symphony concert, and they sit silently and quietly on their hands with their mouths shut for 45 minutes (with people giving them annoying looks for even coughing) and only stand, clap, and say Bravo at the end of that 45 minuets. Whereas 100,000 beer drinking fans attend each U2 concert or competitive event like NASCAR and those fans whoop, holler, and spill beer throughout the entire event. And moreover, U2 and NASCAR are self-sufficient money making ticket selling machines whereas Symphonies need Foundations Grants, Rich Patrons, and Government Grants to even dream about surviving. So, IMO, if DCI wants to claim Major League Status and perform at Pro Stadiums attracting 60,000 fans to Finals, they need to start appealing to the Major League ticket buyers who attend music concerts like U2 or competitive activities like NASCAR.

Careful, young Jedi, for pitting those touched by the force against each other is sure to destroy the house of DCI.

Maybe from the beer-swilling perspective your analogy pitting the symphony and NASCAR crowds makes sense, but as an official wine conny-sewer I say it's all hogwash.

Just open the DCI program to the listing of Friends of DCI to see the equivalent of the symphony crowd of patrons and supporters. That list is proof that the two classes you endeavor to so carefully separate do, in fact, exist homogeneously in DCI. In fact, the "patron class" exists happily right along-side the beer-class rabble not in the loge or corporate suites of up-high, but down in the stands where the show is best (albeit with a generally better vantage point thanks to the perks of their honoraria, than the typical beer-swilling belcher). In this case we are more akin to the symphony crowd.

We don't "sit silently" except as expected during the performance, just as is the case of the black-tied symphony patron. We scream just as loudly as the lower classes ala U2/NASCAR crowd. Want proof? Then look at the crowd pan of 2008 just after The Voice announced second place. Right there, next to tunnel portal #6, with arms in air, mouth open screaming, and head tilted back in thanks to the honorable drum Gods for PR's win, were me and my son, and about a hundred-and-fifty other "rich patrons". Yet you couldn't tell the difference between us and the rabble in that moment. We like it that way.

While we're glad to see one another at the shows, we don't leave at intermission after "being seen"; in fact we usually stay until after encores. (Bill Cook was in section 340 last year, a few rows up from my seats. And I saw him applauding like a 16 year old during Star Alum's performance, even if his T-shirt had lesser arm-pit stains.)

We don't hold our noses up (even if I do look to see that they spelled my name right in the program). We don't whine about not attaining government grants, and while we don't seek out Foundation Grants we do provide funding for grants to students who can't afford to pay the fee to march.

In fact, you don't even know we're there, and we might be standing right next to you. But you'll certainly miss us if DCI ignores us and/or drives us away. Because simple math should tell you how many non-"rich patrons" it would take to replace just one of us; it takes 20 additional fans, buying the $125 seats at finals, to make up for a single Platinum-level "rich patron", not including the purchases of additional Friends tickets our souvie-booth purchases. And there are about 80 of them at that contribution level. That's 1600 fans - roughly 10% of finals attendance - needed to replace our snootie-dom. Not an easy task in "normal" times, and certainly nearly impossible in these times of declining attendance.

Anyone reading this, whether from the symphony or U2/NASCAR crowd - should see the futility in this line of thinking if they are considering the future of our unique activity. For ours is a combination fan base, made up of all classes, symbiotically necessary for the health and long-term success of the activity.

To ignore either one is as detrimental as ignoring the other. DCI would do best to continue to listen to, embrace, and program for the enjoyment of, both.

Thus ends the lesson.

[garfield]

Wow; what a way to be condescending not only to great human beings who like the music of Lady GaGa, but also to musicians like Alex Van Halen, Jimi Hendrix, Danny Elfman, Kenny Aronoff, and all of the other classically trained musicians who did nothing more than enjoy their craft by playing what you call stupid and awful music like Lady GaGa to all of those "dumb ole" rock fans!

...like the way you're condescending to the wine-drinking patrons of the symphony, Stu?

et tu, Brutas, et tu.

[skewerz]

Rock today is not like Buddy Holly and the Crickets of yester-year. It "drastically" changed over time into groups like U2 and the aforementioned Lady GaGa to stay relevant; and so should drum corps change, not into a non-marching organization, but change to stay relevant or it will certainly die as a relic.

their presentations have changed...styles are different, but their INSTRUMENTATION hasn't...rock has and will be guitar, bass, keyboard, drums, and sometimes brass/woodwind.

rock and roll is PROOF that you don't need to screw with the instrumentation to get a vast array of different styles in one genre.

[garfield]

their presentations have changed...styles are different, but their INSTRUMENTATION hasn't...rock has and will be guitar, bass, keyboard, drums, and sometimes brass/woodwind.

rock and roll is PROOF that you don't need to screw with the instrumentation to get a vast array of different styles in one genre.

^

l

l

(This)

But wait. Drum corps is older than R&R, so I'm sure the answer is that it, too, will soon have to change it's instrumentation to stay current with what fans want.

Yeah, that's it.

Edited January 29, 2011 by garfield

[Stu]

Careful, young Jedi, for pitting those touched by the force against each other is sure to destroy the house of DCI.

Maybe from the beer-swilling perspective your analogy pitting the symphony and NASCAR crowds makes sense, but as an official wine conny-sewer I say it's all hogwash.

Just open the DCI program to the listing of Friends of DCI to see the equivalent of the symphony crowd of patrons and supporters. That list is proof that the two classes you endeavor to so carefully separate do, in fact, exist homogeneously in DCI. In fact, the "patron class" exists happily right along-side the beer-class rabble not in the loge or corporate suites of up-high, but down in the stands where the show is best (albeit with a generally better vantage point thanks to the perks of their honoraria, than the typical beer-swilling belcher). In this case we are more akin to the symphony crowd.

We don't "sit silently" except as expected during the performance, just as is the case of the black-tied symphony patron. We scream just as loudly as the lower classes ala U2/NASCAR crowd. Want proof? Then look at the crowd pan of 2008 just after The Voice announced second place. Right there, next to tunnel portal #6, with arms in air, mouth open screaming, and head tilted back in thanks to the honorable drum Gods for PR's win, were me and my son, and about a hundred-and-fifty other "rich patrons". Yet you couldn't tell the difference between us and the rabble in that moment. We like it that way.

While we're glad to see one another at the shows, we don't leave at intermission after "being seen"; in fact we usually stay until after encores. (Bill Cook was in section 340 last year, a few rows up from my seats. And I saw him applauding like a 16 year old during Star Alum's performance, even if his T-shirt had lesser arm-pit stains.)

We don't hold our noses up (even if I do look to see that they spelled my name right in the program). We don't whine about not attaining government grants, and while we don't seek out Foundation Grants we do provide funding for grants to students who can't afford to pay the fee to march.

In fact, you don't even know we're there, and we might be standing right next to you. But you'll certainly miss us if DCI ignores us and/or drives us away. Because simple math should tell you how many non-"rich patrons" it would take to replace just one of us; it takes 20 additional fans, buying the $125 seats at finals, to make up for a single Platinum-level "rich patron", not including the purchases of additional Friends tickets our souvie-booth purchases. And there are about 80 of them at that contribution level. That's 1600 fans - roughly 10% of finals attendance - needed to replace our snootie-dom. Not an easy task in "normal" times, and certainly nearly impossible in these times of declining attendance.

Anyone reading this, whether from the symphony or U2/NASCAR crowd - should see the futility in this line of thinking if they are considering the future of our unique activity. For ours is a combination fan base, made up of all classes, symbiotically necessary for the health and long-term success of the activity.

To ignore either one is as detrimental as ignoring the other. DCI would do best to continue to listen to, embrace, and program for the enjoyment of, both.

Thus ends the lesson.

Nevertheless, if what we are seeking is an substantial increase in ticket sales, if we want to grow and not die, if we want to tour as a Major League, we Must change strategy in order to become appealing to the more ticket buyers; plain and simple Go to Daytona in mid Feb; sit in the stands; and when the green flag falls look at the over 100.000 in the stands. Go to a U2 concert; and when the stage lights flash, look at the 100,000 plus fans sitting in the stands. Then go to a DCI concert or a especially a Symphony concert and look at those numbers. If DCI is seeking to put many, many, many more butts in the seats DCI has to allow for that change of appeal.