charlie1223 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) ..and sometimes a pig is just a pig. I understand you consider yourself above everyone in culture..but really. Absolutely false. Honestly, how the heck did you get that idea?! Edited February 2, 2011 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I get that.... but... It's just that I feel with so much talk about "un-entertaining" shows and disliking Bflat horns for their sound, and synths and electronics... with all of the "hate" of those aspects I think those people are forgetting that as we speak drum corps is currently a part of that. The kids were the one's performing the shows people think are "un-entertaining", they are/were playing synths that people find "offensive", there are/were people marching trumpets that people think don't sound as good as another trumpet. You can disagree with it, its your right, and discussion is good, but sometimes I think if you have such a strong opinion like that that you just need to be little more diplomatic about it. Have your opinion but just remember to always respect the current members who obviously love the activity the way it is or they wouldn't be marching in it and spending so much time and money on it. That's always at the back of my mind. But if someone says a show was "boring" or they say they "hate" the sound of this or that, that's fine, but just try to respect the kids currently working their but off to perform a show for you with those mechanisms that you say you hate... It's just a fine a line. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, I just think strong opinions are tossed around without respect for the current members, that's it. I'll even try to be better about it... "Hate" is so overused. I prefer "dislike greatly". In a free society that espouses the arts, one should NOT censor disagreement and or speech. BTW that is how HATE starts..see Egypt. Anyone that is in the arts better get some thick skins cause its a tough world out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Correct. Understand I was trying in vain to understand how someone can't see ANY difference from 1995 Madison and 2010 Blue Devils. I am trying to wrap my head on that reality that is being given. You can't understand it because no one has attempted to DO that. I pointed out the logistical fallacy of your example, but you're failing to accept the inherent problems your non-workable example poses. Why not compare two shows from the era that had the same general tone? Otherwise, you're comparing a root beer float to a Cabernet, and saying "how can anyone say they're the same?", rather than listening to the person who points out how pointless THAT comparison is. Compare the '95 Devils show with the 2010 Devils show. Neither was particularly geared toward the casual fan, both were excoriated by the "I want entertainment and that's all I want" crowd. Did they both use horns? Yup. Were they performed on a football field? Yep. Drumline? Yup. Pit? Yup. Guard, dancing and doing equipment work? Yup. So the primary difference are the keys of the horns (no one cares), the fact that the pit uses amps and electronics (I don't like that change, but it's a marginal rather than a core change in presentation), and that the 2010 corps used mirrors. The musical choices were similar in tone. The visual program was (to my mind, regrettably) pretty similar. That being the case, it's reasonable to state that if the type of show some of you hated last year was also around 15 years ago, played on instruments that were simply older versions of the instruments used now, that it really hasn't changed that much. There was room for what BD did in 05, there's room for what they did last year. There was room for Madison's populist approach in 95, there was room for Madison's approach in 2010. The paint jobs are a little different but what's under the paint is much the same. Edited February 2, 2011 by mobrien 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Bad example - how about Blue Devils 1995 and 2010? (by the way, the term "material difference" means a significant change in the tools used, the overall nature of the product, or the means used to create the product - from a material standpoint, drum corps is more or less the same as it was in the 80s and 90s; horns, drums, guard equipment, football field). Almost any of the top shows from '95 could have been done again this year and no one would have batted an eyelash because they wouldn't have seemed retro. That's my point; the activity hasn't really changed as much as some here swear that it has. Maybe some of us have just gotten older and grouchier with the passage of time. These are your words are they not? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 "Hate" is so overused. I prefer "dislike greatly". In a free society that espouses the arts, one should NOT censor disagreement and or speech. BTW that is how HATE starts..see Egypt. Anyone that is in the arts better get some thick skins cause its a tough world out there. I never inferred censoring your opinions or free-speech. I was merely discussing some arguments can come across as being offensive when they don't have to be. It's not about having tough skin, it's about being diplomatic...? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I never inferred censoring your opinions or free-speech. I was merely discussing some arguments can come across as being offensive when they don't have to be. It's not about having tough skin, it's about being diplomatic...? Actually, this is as good as it gets after 10 years of "improvements" culminating in the winner last year. I think I'm being fairly nice come to think about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) These are your words are they not? Yup. Did you read them? Especially the ones that follow the phrase "Bad example"?... Edited February 2, 2011 by mobrien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Yup. Did you read them? Especially the ones that follow the phrase "Bad example"?... Interesting, so when you used () to define what you meant you actually didn't mean that..got it. I also looked back at the CONTEXT (big word here) to what you were meaning by "Bad Example" and you provided your own as opposed to Madison. Care to try again? Edited February 2, 2011 by Mello Dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Hey guys, current member here. Reading this stuff sucks. It really does. I've got a pretty thick skin, but some of this stuff can really get at you. As someone else said, we're the ones out there performing night after night for the people in the stands. It's a bunch of kids and young adults, doing the exact same thing you were doing 20 or 30 years ago. We still go out and sweat on a football field all day, spending hours on end rehearsing the same chunk of show over, and over again, rehearsing the same passage of music until it's perfect, then going out every night under the lights and performing for the people in the stands. Give it a rest. Sure, it's not on G bugles, and it's amped, but when did everything else become different? When did the day-to-day activities start changing? When did the passion and drive to go out there day after day go away? Seriously everyone, think about it. The big logo still says DCI, the kids are still the same, it's all the same. Just let it go. People who can't accept the change and leave are the reason DCI is dying, it isn't the change, it's the people abandoning it because they can't accept the change. Someone said earlier that it's the directors that don't care about DCI, maybe it's the fans who can't stop #####ing that are the ones who don't care. Look at yourselves, and clean your own house before looking at other's. Let only he who is without sin cast the first stone. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Hey guys, current member here. Reading this stuff sucks. It really does. I've got a pretty thick skin, but some of this stuff can really get at you. As someone else said, we're the ones out there performing night after night for the people in the stands. It's a bunch of kids and young adults, doing the exact same thing you were doing 20 or 30 years ago. We still go out and sweat on a football field all day, spending hours on end rehearsing the same chunk of show over, and over again, rehearsing the same passage of music until it's perfect, then going out every night under the lights and performing for the people in the stands. Give it a rest. Sure, it's not on G bugles, and it's amped, but when did everything else become different? When did the day-to-day activities start changing? When did the passion and drive to go out there day after day go away? Seriously everyone, think about it. The big logo still says DCI, the kids are still the same, it's all the same. Just let it go. People who can't accept the change and leave are the reason DCI is dying, it isn't the change, it's the people abandoning it because they can't accept the change. Someone said earlier that it's the directors that don't care about DCI, maybe it's the fans who can't stop #####ing that are the ones who don't care. Look at yourselves, and clean your own house before looking at other's. Let only he who is without sin cast the first stone. fsubone: Everything you said about the member experience in the activity is accurate. The thing is if the audience dwindles, and you perform to less and less people while the costs remain the same or go higher, DCI will not be able to financially sustain itself; which in turn will eliminate all the great experiences you mentioned about membership. To help the activity stay solvent, and since you are a current member, what ideas would you propose to increase the numbers of paying people attending Finals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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