Hrothgar15 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) As a paying fan that is looking for enjoyable music to listen to and watch, it just doesn't matter. Exactly. Never been involved with drum corps, never wanted to. Not interested in that side of the activity in the slightest. Edited February 5, 2011 by Hrothgar15 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 There's something here I wish all of you "opinion-istas" would rationalize: Woodwinds were available and used in the 1940's when drum corps started, but they were not used in drum corps because drum corps had it's roots in the military. The Ohio State Univ. Marching Band (TBDBITL) has always exclusively used brass instruments even though WW were available at the beginning of the band. But it's never been referred to as a drum and bugle corps. Drum Corps is military-rooted. Marching Band is scholastic-rooted. Drum corps has never been referred to as marching band (except by MikeD) because it was not scholastic-based. TBDBITL was never referred to as a drum corps because it's scholastic-based. Ergo, when drum corps "aligns" itself with scholastic music, whether or not it allows WW, it will be summertime, touring marching band. (Just squirting lighter fluid on the barby ) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Okay, I'll play. Let's apply your defining characteristics (excellence, attention to detail, difficulty, pageantry) to figure skating... gymnastics... the United States Marine Corps Silent Drill Platoon. Sorry, those are not characteristics that are exclusive to drum corps. They're just not. Your argument is pretty weak. Your saying that because we can use the same "adjectives" to describe different organizations that those qualities are not exclusive to drum corps? Ridiculous! Attention to detail in figure skating is completely different than the attention to detail that goes into a drum corps production. Sure you can use the same "adjectives" but they mean totally different things. You're under the assumption that drum corps is only that quality that isn't shared by other organizations. By I'm telling you that drum corps is only what it is because of a NUMBER of different adjectives that describe it's unique context. Blast is an example of a performance with Brass, Percussion and Colorguard. Is that drum corps? NO, it is not drum corps in the context of DCI World Class drum corps. It's not JUST the instrumentation that matters. Drum corps is NOT just defined by that one tiny little "adjective" that it doesn't share with other organizations (because no adjective by itself can indicate what a drum corps is). It's a number of different things together that describe drum corps. And as it relates to the HS band without woodwinds... some have accused current bottom end "world class" corps to not be "world class" material either, yet we still call them world class because they're in that division. It seems that it's all in just a name. Its a drum corps, or "world class" just because we say so. That's what we've come down to. Instrumentation used to resolve this cyclical debate. Is a telephone something that makes phone calls? My computer makes phone calls is it a phone? It's the instrumentation in CONTEXT. You can't just say drum corps is just brass, percussion and color-guard. Where's the context? The context is all of things I've mentioned before that you just poopooed away. "A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet." Try again. yup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skewerz Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Your argument is pretty weak. Your saying that because we can use the same "adjectives" to describe different organizations that those qualities are not exclusive to drum corps? Ridiculous! Attention to detail in figure skating is completely different than the attention to detail that goes into a drum corps production. Sure you can use the same "adjectives" but they mean totally different things. You're under the assumption that drum corps is only that quality that isn't shared by other organizations. By I'm telling you that drum corps is only what it is because of a NUMBER of different adjectives that describe it's unique context. Blast is an example of a performance with Brass, Percussion and Colorguard. Is that drum corps? NO, it is not drum corps in the context of DCI World Class drum corps. It's not JUST the instrumentation that matters. Drum corps is NOT just defined by that one tiny little "adjective" that it doesn't share with other organizations (because no adjective by itself can indicate what a drum corps is). It's a number of different things together that describe drum corps. Is a telephone something that makes phone calls? My computer makes phone calls is it a phone? It's the instrumentation in CONTEXT. You can't just say drum corps is just brass, percussion and color-guard. Where's the context? The context is all of things I've mentioned before that you just poopooed away. "A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet." yup. ok...what, to you, makes drum corps unique? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 ok...what, to you, makes drum corps unique? Honestly, drum corps is an activity where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. It's not "just" the instrumentation that makes it drum corps, it's the style, it's the music, the arrangements, it's the movement, the drill, the tempos, it's the uniforms, it's the tradition, it's the innovation, it's its structure, the touring, the high quality, level of achievement, the performers, the staff, the competitions, the fans... there is much that goes into drum corps we know today. All that and more. A combination of things that when put in a drum corps context make it unique... for me. I don't pin point drum corps "uniqueness" on one thing along, I acknowledge that its unique for a NUMBER of different reasons. I do NOT think that drum corps is solely, 100%, defined by lack of woodwinds... Am I completely slating that instrumentation is PART of the definition/ uniqueness? NO! It's a number of things in context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skewerz Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 All that and more. A combination of things that when put in a drum corps context make it unique... for me. I don't pin point drum corps "uniqueness" on one thing along, I acknowledge that its unique for a NUMBER of different reasons. I do NOT think that drum corps is solely, 100%, defined by lack of woodwinds... Am I completely slating that instrumentation is PART of the definition/ uniqueness? NO! It's a number of things in context. style...marching band movement...marching band and dance troupes uniforms...marching band tempos...marching band arrangements...marching band structure...marching band high quality...lots of things level of achievement...lots of things staff...marching band competitions...marching band performers...marching band tradition...hmmm..I would have agreed with you a decade ago...now? not so much. I've seen videos of the top high school marching bands, and top college marching bands. They all have this...the only thing that used to separate them was instrumentation, and the summer tour. Now, it's only the summer tour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) style...marching band movement...marching band and dance troupes uniforms...marching band tempos...marching band arrangements...marching band structure...marching band high quality...lots of things level of achievement...lots of things staff...marching band competitions...marching band performers...marching band tradition...hmmm..I would have agreed with you a decade ago...now? not so much. I've seen videos of the top high school marching bands, and top college marching bands. They all have this...the only thing that used to separate them was instrumentation, and the summer tour. Now, it's only the summer tour. UGH. See, your doing the same thing as nemiscorps. Your saying... "well marching bands have staff too so it's marching band! well, marching band has competitions too, so that's not unique!" All people have eyes so that means that eye's are not at all unique to a person... wrong. How can you be so vague as to say "style... marching band". You don't even know the context of the style. Do you not understand that the "level of achievement" in drum corps is different than any other kinds of level of achievement in Chess or football?! can you not understand that? IT's all in the context! And you apparently don't understand that concept. There is No other organization on the planet that allows people from all across the world to audition for a marching music ensemble, learn a 11 1/2 minute show for a month during spring training, travel all across the country for 90 days, performing in competitions and parades every other day, while achieving the highest level of technical excellence on their specific instrument.... I could definitely go on.... But you just think that saying instrumentation is the sole defining quality of drum corps... it's not true. You're forgetting the CONTEXT. CONTEXT. Edited February 5, 2011 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byline Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 then, somewhere in the 90's, as the desingers Typo of the day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Blast is an example of a performance with Brass, Percussion and Colorguard. Is that drum corps? NO, it is not drum corps in the context of DCI World Class drum corps. It's not JUST the instrumentation that matters. Drum corps is NOT just defined by that one tiny little "adjective" that it doesn't share with other organizations (because no adjective by itself can indicate what a drum corps is). It's a number of different things together that describe drum corps. It's the instrumentation in CONTEXT. You can't just say drum corps is just brass, percussion and color-guard. Where's the context? The context is all of things I've mentioned before that you just poopooed away. Wait. Blast IS drum corps, it's just done on a stage instead of a football field. Blast has it's roots in drum corps, and drum corps has it's roots in military field calls. Ergo, BLAST! has it's roots in military field calls and IS drum corps because it uses brass, percussion, and color guard. You're right that it's instrumentation in context. And the context is/was that the military did not use woodwinds for field calls*. The woodwind instrumentation was not in the military, so when military groups started drum corps they didn't use woodwinds. And because they didn't use woodwinds, and they were not associated with a scholastic program, they did not call them marching bands. The context of the instrumentation is THE defining context that separates drum corps from marching band. *The painting Spirit of '76 (remember, the fife [a woodwind], drum and flag) came to my mind as I was typing this because the artist, Archibald Willard painted it in my hometown of Wellington, OH. Does this mean they used woodwinds in the military? Yes, but only for parades and not for field calls. A fife would never be heard over the roar of the cannon.) /end trivia lesson and back to the argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skewerz Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 1. UGH. See, your doing the same thing as nemiscorps. Your saying... "well marching bands have staff too so it's marching band! well, marching band has competitions too, so that's not unique!" All people have eyes so that means that eye's are not at all unique to a person... wrong. How can you be so vague as to say "style... marching band". You don't even know the context of the style. 2. Do you not understand that the "level of achievement" in drum corps is different than any other kinds of level of achievement in Chess or football?! can you not understand that? IT's all in the context! And you apparently don't understand that concept. 3. There is No other organization on the planet that allows people from all across the world to audition for a marching music ensemble, learn a 11 1/2 minute show for a month during spring training, travel all across the country for 90 days, performing in competitions and parades every other day, while achieving the highest level of technical excellence on their specific instrument.... I could definitely go on.... 4. But you just think that saying instrumentation is the sole defining quality of drum corps... it's not true. You're forgetting the CONTEXT. CONTEXT. 1. the marching bands have the same staff...not just staff. The kids in these top bands are also in drum corps. 2. level of achievement isn't exclusive to drum corps. 3. now you are reverting back to the cmm side of the argument, and not the fan side of the argument. I don't care that they sleep on gym floors for 2 months...all I care about is the show. 4. what happened to the tradition? most of the major traditions that made drum corps unique have been removed by director votes, and most of these during the last 10 years. G bugles, retreat, the addition of electronics. The directors don't seem to care about the tradition of drum corps, yet legacy fans get castigated when they say they are done with drum corps..."they are too narrow minded...they need to grow". Why should a fan care about drum corps when drum corps doesn't care about the fan? Lets just say, for arguments sake that the sound is why some people attend drum corps. Electronics change that sound. Instrumentation is what makes drum corps unique for a lot of fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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