charlie1223 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) What are you for? If not concert, what specific changes would you like to see implemented to improve the programs? Jeff? Anyone? HH If something must be done then I would do what Michael Cesario is doing. Just talking directly with the designers. Just be blunt with them with FACTS and FIGURES (not speculation, guessing, or personal tastes). Let the designers talk with each other and the judges about those FACTS and FIGURES and about the direction of DCI and how show designs are DCI's vessels. If the change can come from the show designers themselves and NOT from DCI mandates/regulations then the change will not only be more natural but be more fruitful as well. What I say, is everything is out of the bag now. We know the general gist of what Micheal is telling the most powerful in DCI and in drum corps. I'd say that we just wait 4 more months and we'll all be pleasantly surprised.... Edited February 16, 2011 by charlie1223 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted February 16, 2011 Author Share Posted February 16, 2011 If something must be done then I would do what Michael Cesario is doing. Just talking directly with the designers. Just be blunt with them with FACTS and FIGURES (not speculation, guessing, or personal tastes). Let the designers talk with each other and the judges about those FACTS and FIGURES and about the direction of DCI and how show designs are DCI's vessels. If the change can come from the show designers themselves and NOT from DCI mandates/regulations then the change will not only be more natural but be more fruitful as well. What I say, is everything is out of the bag now. We know the general gist of what Micheal is telling the most powerful in DCI and in drum corps. I'd say that we just wait 4 more months and we'll all be pleasantly surprised.... Tell people to design better shows? Surely you can be more specific. What would you tell them to do? I understand you don't want to legislate this. Fine. But how would you guide it? What sort of information would you provide to these designers to make drum corps better? HH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Tell people to design better shows? Surely you can be more specific. What would you tell them to do? I understand you don't want to legislate this. Fine. But how would you guide it? What sort of information would you provide to these designers to make drum corps better? HH I'd ask them what their favorite drum corps moments of all time were. I'd ask them to think about those moments in history that got them excited about drum corps. Then I'd ask them to think out about the potential of drum corps. What kind of new ideas they'd like incorporate. Then I'd ask them about what they think the judges would like to see. Then I'd ask them about they think the audience wants to see. Then I'd tell them to take all of those things and combine them. All of the those elements should be in the show. 1.The Tradition 2.The Innovation 3.The Technical Superiority 4.The Fan Appeal (for lack of a better term) Each corps designer should have those 4 things in their show checklist. World Class Drum corps is small enough that all you really need to do is just talk to them more frequently to hit ideas and problems home. No regulation required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 What are you for? If not concert, what specific changes would you like to see implemented to improve the programs? Jeff? Anyone? HH less emphasis on GE as it's curretnly applied. if you are going to keep the math the same, then GE should have all parts of the triad rewarded when displayed. if you are overly dominant on just the intellectual or emotional, sorry no 9.9/9.9 for you. more weight on performance, less on book. too often the book number determines the performance number. I think this would open up the placements and may eliminate many of the slotting conspiracies, especially early on in the season. I think it's time that designers get clued in on the fact that drum corps is a business, not just high art. Imagine, if people actually like drum corps, and attendance rises, that means more people see their work...and could help them get more gigs, or at least a raise at their current gig. better marketing. especially for corps not in the TOC. in terms of programming...really....the judges will reward what is good and what isn't. try some jazz. maybe broadway. allow for a complete musical thought, not just a series of transitions to build up to the next power chord with body done underneath. Really, Cesario spelled it all out in the clip DCI showed, and having been thru a similar clinic with him, Ican imagine he said a lot more he did that day back in 2005 I was in attendance. See...dont just design for the judges...design for the fans. Why? because deep down inside, judges are fans too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Just pointing out BS when I see it. Not that it was particularly difficult this round. sorry, you fail again. keep playing tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I'd ask them what their favorite drum corps moments of all time were. I'd ask them to think about those moments in history that got them excited about drum corps. Then I'd ask them to think out about the potential of drum corps. What kind of new ideas they'd like incorporate. Then I'd ask them about what they think the judges would like to see. Then I'd ask them about they think the audience wants to see. Then I'd tell them to take all of those things and combine them. All of the those elements should be in the show. 1.The Tradition 2.The Innovation 3.The Technical Superiority 4.The Fan Appeal (for lack of a better term) Each corps designer should have those 4 things in their show checklist. World Class Drum corps is small enough that all you really need to do is just talk to them more frequently to hit ideas and problems home. No regulation required. well done sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSU GRAD 82 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 and 90% of those DCP'ers over 55 agree with you. Me, meh. I hate ballads. I like the show which begin with velocity and then keep it up for 11 min. Absolutely nothing more boring than watching 11 minutes of drill comprised of repetitive evolving geometric patterns while listening to unrecognizable musical phrases. Wash, rinse, repeat. Next Corps up. Wash, rinse, repeat. BTW, I'll be 55 next month......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 BTW, I'll be 55 next month.........[/i] Have a happy Dino birthday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemesiscorps Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) I'd ask them what their favorite drum corps moments of all time were. I'd ask them to think about those moments in history that got them excited about drum corps. Then I'd ask them to think out about the potential of drum corps. What kind of new ideas they'd like incorporate. Then I'd ask them about what they think the judges would like to see. Then I'd ask them about they think the audience wants to see. Then I'd tell them to take all of those things and combine them. All of the those elements should be in the show. 1.The Tradition 2.The Innovation 3.The Technical Superiority 4.The Fan Appeal (for lack of a better term) Each corps designer should have those 4 things in their show checklist. World Class Drum corps is small enough that all you really need to do is just talk to them more frequently to hit ideas and problems home. No regulation required. This would be great... in an ideal world, but here's the problem: Two separate DCI Hall of Fame members (one that was in attendance in Indy, the other is a former chair of the DCI BoD) recently told me that what you describe here is not likely to happen, simply because there is no real incentive for corps "x" to make any changes in direction from what they're currently doing. Note: I'm not referring to any specific corps here. If your organization is currently "successful" with the path that is already tried and true, the only reason to change course would be for the sake of others... which again, is not likely to happen. Certainly, we can all see the shortsightedness of such a decision, but hey, until it hits home (or the pocketbook) of everyone involved, what is there to lose by continuing to do what's working for them right now? There are very few examples (perhaps none) of how corps that are driving the activity have made conscious decisions to move in a different direction, solely for someone else's benefit, even the fans. Let's just be honest here, if that weren't true we wouldn't be having this discussion. Edited February 16, 2011 by nemesiscorps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 (edited) This would be great... in an ideal world, but here's the problem: Two separate DCI Hall of Fame members (one that was in attendance in Indy, the other is a former chair of the DCI BoD) recently told me that what you describe here is not likely to happen, simply because there is no real incentive for corps "x" to make any changes in direction from what they're currently doing. Note: I'm not referring to any specific corps here. If your organization is currently "successful" with the path that is already tried and true, the only reason to change course would be for the sake of others... which again, is not likely to happen. Certainly, we can all see the shortsightedness of such a decision, but hey, until it hits home (or the pocketbook) of everyone involved, what is there to lose by continuing to do what's working for them right now? There are very few examples (perhaps none) of how corps that are driving the activity have made conscious decisions to move in a different direction, solely for someone else's benefit, even the fans. Let's just be honest here, if that weren't true we wouldn't be having this discussion. This is not just ideal, its extremely possible. The discussion that "I" would have designers feeds on their own self interests (based on my previous post of what I would ask designers) "The Traditional" questions ask designers to incorporate some of their favorite "ideas" from past. Whether from their own corps, or from DC in general. A designer wouldn't be "against" this because its is own "traditional favorites"; whether it be a drill move, or classic tune, or whatever. They'd choose their favorite traditional concept and implement that in their show because of the strong resonance that it has with him. The self interest of reliving something from the past, something that made him fall in love with drum corps. That is powerful! "The Innovation" questions asks and encourages designers to dive into their own self interests of what is innovative and creative. What has never been done? What can be tweaked? Think outside the box, show how creative you can be on the field, show us something we've never seen before. This is the idea that drives a lot modern shows anyway, so no problem implementing this. "The Technical Superiority" questions asks designers to get in the mind of a judge. To satisfy their craving high demand and high execution. The self interest involved here is getting a higher score. Achieving at a higher level than your competition etc. "The Fan Appeal" questions ask designers to think like an audience member. Either a 14 year old marching band student, a 27 year old corp alum, the 65 year old dino, and Joe Blow from the across the street. What's the self interest? Your public reputation, your incoming auditionee class, your souvie sales, and your fan base, the continued strength and appeal of DCI drum corps. If things aren't ideal for you and you've tried implementing the former 3, then doing something different here will in fact resurrect you. If for example BD feels that their lack of wide "Fan Appeal" is beneficial to DCI, their fan base, their sales, their over all success, then they will see that in the long-run it is NOT sustainable. Sure a corps can make a show that is strictly about Fan Appeal and Tradition, but without the Technical Superiority or Innovation, this continued sequence of shows is not sustainable. The point is that LONG TERM sustainable and enjoyable drum corps for everyone must have these 4 elements. Some shows are heavier in some areas than in others. Again, I stress communication and discussion with all DCI designers, that all 4 of these elements are EQUALLY important for different reasons. And in spite of what they think about the "reasons", it does not change their significance and importance. These ARE the elements (accept it or not) that NEED to be incorporate in shows every year for drum corps to be sustainable and grow in the future. That's that. Edited February 16, 2011 by charlie1223 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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