Grandpa Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 No. I just think it would be cool if more performed at a consistently high level where it is anyone's game. I don't really think there needs to be any more than 20 major league corps out there performing on a more equal level. Maybe the same number of minor league corps as well. I agree we don't need any more elite level corps. Why propose a cap on the lower tier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsnare Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) I think Gibbs, Fiedler, and Hopkins will have a farm system worked; AAA, AA, and Major league and all age. The AAA corps will compete in their region, same with AA, Major league, and all age. There will be a regional playoffs and a final four (maybe 6ths or eights) at rotating venues for the championship of their level. There will be drum and brass groups, and all instrument groups which will include woodwinds. Kids will not be able to move to another group unless they have x number of years in a regional group. My vision of drum corps 2020 My answer is many - but more local Edited August 1, 2011 by oldsnare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skywhopper Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) Hopkins in 1997: STRATIFICATION Objectives: - Take advantage of the marketability of the top corps throughout the season - A show with four or five of the top six corps is an "event" that many sponsors and audience members will pay a premium for - Grow the fan base by creating an "event" that is hard to ignore. Create a sensible evolutionary path for individual units - Reduce the burden of national touring for all but the top corps - Use membership criteria to allow corps to move in and out of categories - Emphasize quality as the basis of growth: experience for the kids, fiscal management practices - Actively help to grow individual units .... The Super Corps (The Majors) - No rules - The premium product -- offered as a package to show sponsors - Touring on a national level - The Promotional Tour Group - Nos. 1- 6 right now - Entertainment priority No. 1, life skills No. 2, technical skills No. 3 The "Triple A" Drum Corps! - Nos. 7-15 or so right now - They can set their own limitations - Tour in regions in early season, and then nationally--much as now. - Able to marketed in two tours for lesser cash to sponsors. - Sometimes tied to Super Corps - Life skills No. 1, entertainment No. 2; technical skills No. 3 The Double A Drum Corps - No. 16 through the top third of the division 2 and 3 corps - Local community-based activity - Limited touring - Build relationships with existing local circuits (GSC, ODCA); create new circuits - Sometimes tied to Super Corps - Life skills No. 1; technical skills No. 2, entertainment No. 3 The "A" Drum Corps - Create growth for corps with younger kids (equivalent to middle and lower ranking division 2/3 corps) - Not marketed -- participatory! - Local shows - Regional championships - Technical skills No. 1, life skills No. 2, entertainment No. 3 The Babe Ruth League - Training corps - Local shows - Music education vehicle for elementary and Junior High kids! - Technical skills No. 1, life skills No. 2, entertainment No. 3 Edited August 1, 2011 by skywhopper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) No. I just think it would be cool if more performed at a consistently high level where it is anyone's game. I don't really think there needs to be any more than 20 major league corps out there performing on a more equal level. Maybe the same number of minor league corps as well. Dan, in previous posts I've gotten impression that you consider the TOC of 8 corps to be correct. Do you support 8 or 20? If 20, do all share in revenue equally? I might be able to go along with 20 if a class/tour system were developed for the 21 and below. Reading Skywhopper's comments from Hopkins is enlightening. Do you agree with what was written about Hop's recommendations there? Edited August 2, 2011 by garfield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 If I had to guess..........in 2020....... 15 corps left in World Class 10 corps left in Open Class 10 corps left in "A" class...... I think an A class will be formed out of neccesity........it doesn't make sense for a new startup corps with 10 horns to be going head to head with experienced, large Open Class corps..............they need to go head to head with other small, inexperienced corps.......... I think that money.... and the fact that our country is still in a bad recession and the possibility of a full depression looming..........this is going to be tough on high budget corps........... I also think that we will see a return of "regional competition". Corps will stay in their region of the country the majority of the season, and there will be only around a 10 day tour which will lead all to nationals................ I don't like to be a "doom and gloom" predictor, but I fear that the economic conditions in our country are going to get way, way worse............. GB 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 If I had to guess..........in 2020....... 15 corps left in World Class 10 corps left in Open Class 10 corps left in "A" class...... I think an A class will be formed out of neccesity........it doesn't make sense for a new startup corps with 10 horns to be going head to head with experienced, large Open Class corps..............they need to go head to head with other small, inexperienced corps.......... I think that money.... and the fact that our country is still in a bad recession and the possibility of a full depression looming..........this is going to be tough on high budget corps........... I also think that we will see a return of "regional competition". Corps will stay in their region of the country the majority of the season, and there will be only around a 10 day tour which will lead all to nationals................ I don't like to be a "doom and gloom" predictor, but I fear that the economic conditions in our country are going to get way, way worse............. GB I think many of the things you cite about class structure will come true, but I don't think it will be because of the economy which, when you subtract the DC fiscal involvement, is quite healthy indeed for the chasm that we fell into. Actually, I predict that improving economic conditions will favor corps that have strong non-corps businesses and a strong fundraising arm, no matter if they're big or small. And I suspect the growth will last, at least, until 2021, making it fertile ground for a group of people considering starting a corps organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I think an A class will be formed out of neccesity........it doesn't make sense for a new startup corps with 10 horns to be going head to head with experienced, large Open Class corps..............they need to go head to head with other small, inexperienced corps.......... So - back to Divs II and III then. I would agree. I never understood lumping that range of corps in together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesBry Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 It is not the rules that create a lack of parity. It isn't a conspiracy. Some corps consistently perform at a higher level than others. I disagree. I believe the rules (or at least their current interpretations) are set up to reward safe choices executed perfectly rather than ambitious choices executed well. As a result, the corps that want to push the envelope will have a more difficult time making it to the top. You could argue that it's a difference in philosophy, but the rules affect both the philosophies and the way they are implemented. It isn't necessarily a conspiracy, but the system you have is perfectly designed to produce the results you're receiving. I don't have the answers off hand, but there has to be a way to change the rules so that parity is encouraged. Going back to the NFL (and even college football), the parity that we see today (that any team can beat any other team on any given day) has not always existed. The NCAA and NFL governing bodies changed rules, and as a result, parity became the norm. Their choices helped the weaker teams to become stronger, and in some ways, they limited the best teams. However, the process has resulted in a better product (increased fans and revenues) for everyone involved. Again, I don't know what rules changes would accomplish this in DCI, but I think it's at least worth discussing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I think many of the things you cite about class structure will come true, but I don't think it will be because of the economy which, when you subtract the DC fiscal involvement, is quite healthy indeed for the chasm that we fell into. Actually, I predict that improving economic conditions will favor corps that have strong non-corps businesses and a strong fundraising arm, no matter if they're big or small. And I suspect the growth will last, at least, until 2021, making it fertile ground for a group of people considering starting a corps organization. although we disagree, I hope that you are right........... GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 Dan, in previous posts I've gotten impression that you consider the TOC of 8 corps to be correct. Do you support 8 or 20? If 20, do all share in revenue equally? I might be able to go along with 20 if a class/tour system were developed for the 21 and below. I think the model of a bloc of top corps that tour nationally from June is the right way forward... larger shows with larger draw... with more shows in places that can support it (ex: Texas). I don't think that should necessarily be limited to the top 8 corps, 10 could be better with the bottom 2 slots rotating between corps that could potentially fill the 9-12 spots in finals, based on the geographic region of the tour. With corps touring more together, rather than apart, it makes the season more interesting as there is more direct comparison, rather than just corps hanging out in their regions and not really meeting up until mid-July. One of the points of the TOC is also that top corps just touring in their local regions until late July is leaving money on the table, and the revenue potential is greater for shows with more top corps on the roster. Reading Skywhopper's comments from Hopkins is enlightening. Do you agree with what was written about Hop's recommendations there? Pretty much, though I don't see much that the bottom two categories can provide that marching band or winterguard can't likely do better, unless they are directly affiliated as a feeder program for a corps in the category above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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