Beast of the East - Lawrence, Ma

[BRASSO]

brasso your the best and guesswhat i give this navillus guy permission to stay and eat bon bons. the show was great the corps are greatand drum corps is great long live drum corps

" I had a friend was a big baseball player

back in high school.

He could throw that speedball by you

make you look like a fool, boy.

'Saw him the other nite at this roadside bar

I was walkin' in, as he was walkin' out.

We went back inside, sat down, had a few drinks

but all he kept talkin' 'bout was....

( chorus )

Glory Days, well they'll pass you by.

Glory Days, in the wink of a young girl's eye.

Glory Days.... Glory Days

Now, I think I'm goin' down to the well tonite

and I'm gonna drink till I get my fill,

and I hope when I get old, I don't sit around thinkin' 'bout it

but I probably will.

Yeah, just sittin' back tryin' to recapture

a little of The Glory, while time slips away

and leaves you with nuthin' Mister but

boring stories of Glory Days. "

( Chorus... repeat twice, ie Glory Days, well they'll pass you by, Glory Days... etc... )

Apologies to Bruce Springsteen.

Edited August 5, 2011 by BRASSO

[Plan9]

It's probably really hard for BD fans to admit that. But I think it's even harder for people on all sides to be okay with it.

I don't think the mark of a great show is necessarily its universal appeal. And I don't think every top show has to be universally appealing. And I don't think BD and Cadets fans should waste so much time arguing about this, because both corps have been fan-friendly and alienating to similar degrees in recent memory.

What I think we all tend to overlook is the ways that these corps depend on each other. BD should be thanking the Cadets this year (and last year). Its because of fan-friendly shows like what the Cadets are offering that BD can afford to be a little alienating without the risk of alienating people from the entire activity. BD can risk pushing some people away in the name of experimentation because they know the Cadets and other corps are having the opposite effect on the audience. And they also know that they'll be appealing to a specific group of people in that audience, and have become okay with the inevitable fact that not every show will appeal to everybody.

And in previous years, the reverse has been true -- we all remember Cadets' experimental phase, because that's all this ever is: a phase -- and the same thing happened: there were always corps reigning fans back in when the Cadets risked pushing them away. I don't think it's a coincidence that the Cadets' weird period saw the resurgence of PR and the rise of BC and CC, who've both epitomized audience-friendly, high-performance drum corps lately, and who're both due to start experimenting (like SCV currently). And other corps will be there to pick up the slack of audience appeal, when they do.

This is an activity premised on diversity. BD isn't changing the direction of drum corps. BD is changing the direction of BD. Cadets have done, are doing, will do the same. Among the top 5, these are the two corps that have most risked being alienating, sometimes with stunning results. As fans of them each (or both), let's stop arguing and start celebrating.

Excellent post. And this is at the basis of my repeated question to the critics of the "perceived" direction of Drum Corps. If the "fan favorite" wins....no directional issues.....if the "fan favorite" does not win.....drum corps is being dragged in a lethal direction. It's just ridiculous! Yes, there are some electronics issues that many of us newbies are not burdened by, it's all we have known. But on any given year (for me, since 06) there are many, many corps with old school shows (including some of the top 6). But for the critics who are attempting to make a point about the winner "winning" ($1 to Charlie Sheen)...they somehow think that their point will be bolstered by saying DC is dying because the judges picked _______! It's totally transparent and grossly overstated.

And BTW, I have no scientifc evidence but it sure looks like the audience numbers are pretty #### good this summer leaving me to remember a quote from Mark Twain after hearing he was reported dead....... "The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated"

[ApathyJones]

You know, I have read pst after post like this. "Oh, you don't like the show because it's the Blue Devils and you are a HATER" or "The croud just doens't want BD to win because they have won alot recently" blah blah blah.

When I was first introduced to DCI in 1985, I WORSHIPED the Blue Devils. Their 1986 show remains as one of my favorites of all time. I have 100% no reason not want BD to win, EVER. The fact of the matter is, this style of show they are putting out there in the past few years is simply terrible for me. The amount of props on the field to me interrupt the visual flow of the show. Truthfully, there is no visual flow so to speak in the traditional sense of the word. They have less visual demand than other corps, and are obviously not looking to push that envelope anytime soon. If I wanted to watch a standstill, terrific.. there is NO sound in DCI like BD. But as a fan of DCI for 25 years, their show is UNWATCHABLE. Crowds are tepid to BD because they are not more of what people watch drum corps for. Period.

We are not rooting against the Blue Devils, we are rooting against the advancement of this show concept, and praying that other corps dont start to simply copy it to attempt to win. It is the same issue I had when a few years back EVERY corps was sounding the same. I think, hopefully we are getting away from that now. The less "personality" each corps has and the more vanilla the approach becomes, the less people can identify and root for whom they like.

Sorry to tangent off like that, but as a fan I am worried for the future of DCI. Sometimes, when you try too hard to bring in new people to watch shows... you lose the ones that always have.

That is a whole lot of opinion being stated as fact right there. I don't know why haters can't understand that just because YOU don't like something and because musically and artistically ignorant fans in the audience (who would rather hear a corps play Louie, Louie and Land of 1000 Dances for their show because they "get it") don't like it, don't speak for everyone. Some of us love these shows. If you don't, that's fine. But you liking something has absolutely 0 bearing on whether or not it is good or bad. People around here try too often to correlate their dislike of a production (for whatever reason, be it because they are "haters" of the corps performing it, or because they legitimately don't like it) to how well it scores when in fact those two things are completely independent of one another.

Also I have taken many people to drum corps shows in the past and you know what? Sometimes they like BD the best, and sometimes they like Cadets, sometimes they think Cavaliers are the best. It is different for everyone. So for every 1 person you take to a show that doesn't like BD I have 1 that thinks they are amazing. If we took 20 people to a show and 12 liked Cadets and 8 liked the Blue Devils, does that mean that we should disband BD so that only the Cadets style shows exist? Because that is basically what you are saying. Or does it simply mean that in that sample of 20, 12 people had different tastes than the other 8? Crap is so "all or nothing" on DCP. It drives me insane.

[rb325th]

I liked Santa Clara's show the best.. just found it more to my liking than the rest. Cadets were definitely playing on fire though, and I did enjoy their show. Boston, loved the music, drill was lacking later part of show and what is up with the white sheet? Devils.. okay clean, clean clean, but do think Cadets were better despite (and this is where the old school roots will show)... I hated the use of electronics and prerecorded material. I mean seriously there are enough instruments on the field that you can get across the emotions expressed in vocals just as well through the use of the Brass section... All I could think was "all this song needs now is more cowbell" when it came to the over use of electronics. Please, please do not expand that any more than it already is... for the love all that is good about Brass instruments play them more! I am not an arranger or composer but have heard beautiful music come just from brass and percussion over the years. The level of talent on the field is amazing, and there should be more use made of that talent than some prerecorded electronics/singing. (Make the instruments sing, I know you can do it.)

[fsubone]

It drives me insane.

For someone named Apathy, your last sentence here seems a bit ironic, huh?

[Plan9]

Meh - obviously they are both true, and that is about as close to fact as you are ever going to find on DCP. The difference is in the percentages...you would probably say that most people that are not fans of BD right now are probably just sick of them winning, and aren't giving them a shot. Jeff would (probably) say that there a few folks like that, but that most people that sit on their hands just plain aren't engaged by their show.

There is of course, a third option that noone talks about, and its kind of where i find myself. I actually came right out and admitted in my review of west chester that BD's winning this year made it harder for me to enjoy their show. You may find that petty, but here's why its not. First of all - at least im being honest with myself (something rare on the subject). Secondly, to me there is a difference between BD of last year and BD of this year. Last years show was not 'enjoyable' or accessable to most because of the music selections, but it was nearly impossible to doubt their title 'worthiness'. They ran their ***es off, played some crazy stuff, and generally assaulted our senses for about 10 minutes. I was honestly amazed, even if i didn't always get it, and while I would have rather someone else won, i totally accepted and bought into their title.

This year is entirely different. People talk about BD having the freedom to push new boundaries while other corps keep it straight-forward....yeah, i find that argument weak at best. Yeah, so they use props...what corps hasn't? The way in which they use them is 'slightly' more involved than what others have done (just based on how they actually make them a part of the drill), but it wouldn't call it all that shocking. When you look past the props (on an innovative level....not a GE level...since i realize the ARE a part of the show), you get a pretty watered down and safe version of the same show BD has been doing since 2008. Thats what gets people i think. It's almost like they are teasing the audience by saying 'look how much we can get away with doing...or in this case, 'not doing'. To their credit, they make it work, and the judges buy into it, so why would they stop???

Anyway, that went a little off track, but its basically why i'm so much more disappointed in this edition of the blue devils...and why even though it is LARGELY because they are winning, that I DONT consider myself a member of the ABBD club. Fact is, this show should be way more popular than last year...even if the melodies aren't familiar to all, they are accessable, fun, and quite hummable. The show is pretty easy to get, and you dont walk away from it wanting to punch a baby in the face (a la BD 2010). For me, its a nice 3rd or 4th place show...and yet, that's obviously not where its getting scored. If it were not a competitive activity, I would be thrilled to just sit back and watch BD anyday, but unfortunately in this case, we've all decided to make competing a big part of this activity...and for me, there's a big difference between a show you dont get, but are helpless to accept as 'champion worthy' (2010), and a show that is 'accessable' and hummable, but not nearly impressive enough to be a champion in many peoples eyes.

Perhaps the most honest post on the subject I have read in some time. There have been others but this is cathartic in several ways. First off, "punch a baby in the face" is pretty #### funny, even for a fan (and my limited history) who sees BD10 as the most evolved DC design........ever! But the bolded part is where I think the DCP community gets sideways on BD. This, IMO, is a total misperception. Yes, BD designers are students of the sheets......like Gaines and Hopkins aren't! But BD's motivation is "new" design, and from what I know they have embraced the cirque aspects of visual presentation and gone professional at all levels. Marching and guard skills are part of it, but it's more broadway and less marching pagentry.....another level if you will. At least this is my take. It's for this reason that they sometimes appear to be another class unto themselves. I'm not suggesting they are elitest or better or superior as an organization....just another level in terms of design and performance. This is also how they become provocative and in some cases devisive. It's not their intent, they're just breaking loose for some old boundries, then when they get rewarded for it.....some consider it an insult to the activity. I feel (as you have also considered) it's their being rewarded that lights so many fires.

[Big Bad Bari]

Of course the Cadets are connecting with the audience, they are in the EAST. Bring them out west and BD and Cadets would get a totally different reaction.

This is True...

I don't understand how that is relevant. Elaborate?

I was on the field in Miami in 1983 and when my corps lost to Garfield the crowd went nuts and shouted EAST EAST EAST EAST over and over. Were any of you there? can someone other than a BD alum confirm this? Does this not constitute Hometown Favoritism? BTW Jeff this was a DCI Crowd... You know, the ones that are drawn from all over.

You're kidding right? You mean to tell me that doing a basic box drill at 200bpm is just as easy as doing it at 120bpm? Really? Are gonna tell me next that playing at a standstill is just as hard as playing on the move?

Maybe not at 200 but yes when things move faster it is harder to see dirt and it is harder to pick up on pusture issues... But when the tempo is slowed down try to have great body control then! If you havn't tried recently you are not equipped to make this call...

No, I'm implying that speed is hard. Physically moving your legs at a faster pace is harder than moving your legs at a slower pace. You are reading too deep into those comments.

Please see my above comment... You are quite frankly wrong... You do get more tired moving your legs fast tho!

We put on an exibition at the East Coast Classic tonight in Lawrence, so we all received free passes to the rest of the show.

Halfway thru the "The Cadets of Allentown" I left the stadium and drove home.

What I saw on the field is not DRUM CORPS.

I miss the ol' skool Santa Clara Vanguard and the GARFIELD Cadets.

No more DCI for me.

How could you walk out on a COMPLETE throwback show like the Cadets... Heck the Bridgemen did this concept (two warring factions) back in 1980. Granted they (Bridgemen) thought it was too cheesy to do for an entire show but hey... I guess this is progress... LOL

no offense, but all this "east love" for the Cadets is hooey. I've seen them laughed at in their own town. funny how all my trips around the east i've seen BD get lots of love over the years, SCV too.

the lack of love for BD recently hasn't been scores. it's been the shows. I remember the reaction in 06. fans loved it. I remember the reaction the last 3 years...not so much. Saturday night will be very telling...but man I remember when BD came in early in 94. fans across the East ate em up.

Again, I was there in Miami Jeff and in 1983 we were not all that hated yet... YET WE WERE SUBJECTED TO A VERY POLARIZING DCI CROWD.

just as in the West it's friends and family of BD people?

I know, I know, logical again.

I am not really sure why you answered this one with a question. The only guy from the west who believes that BD got a luke warm reception out here is fsubone and he is a huge SCV homer. In fact I am willing to bet that he was sitting with SCV alum as he heard the tepid reactions... I was in the skybox at Stanford and the reaction there was visceral!

i doubt it.

Oh good one...

I know I'm not supposed to speak for the audience or anything like that, but I seem to remember non-Midwestern crowds going ape#### over the Cavies even after they had won three consecutive championships.

And I haven't really seen any open hostility to the Blue Devils . . . though I've not sat in an Eastern audience in the past few years. It just seems as though people prefer other corps. Perhaps they're not being engaged by shows which are intentionally designed not to garner traditional audience reactions.

Nah. It's more fun to play victim and pretend everyone hates BD.

You are right... You are not supposed to speak for the crowd... Here is why... you are sitting with your friends... people who's taste is probably similar to yours. I know I know you can hear the whole crowd right? No you can't...

[Spartans87]

We put on an exibition at the East Coast Classic tonight in Lawrence, so we all received free passes to the rest of the show.

Halfway thru the "The Cadets of Allentown" I left the stadium and drove home.

What I saw on the field is not DRUM CORPS.

I miss the ol' skool Santa Clara Vanguard and the GARFIELD Cadets.

No more DCI for me.

Well, if you walked out half way through you must have not been watching the actual show - because I don't care if you are old school or not, that show was just flat out incredible! Too bad for you.

I get the electronics issue, as I too don't care for it. But I have to say, even I was less offended by its use tonight than in past years, and I was and have been in general this season, pleased that most corps are putting at least a little emphasis on pleasing me the fan.

Too bad you can't embrace a little of the effort put out by the kids on the field. But I guess its not worth your money......oh wait - you didn't actually pay for the ticket!!!

[fsubone]

I feel (as you have also considered) it's their being rewarded that lights so many fires.

That may be, but stick with me here, it's their own fans that fuel and fan the flames a lot of the time. When people are coming on here, saying, "You just hate us cause we win! 15!", and "you just don't get how amazing their show is, you're not paying enough attention", "you're all just haters", it rubs a lot of people the wrong way. And yes, I have seen all of those statements within the last year. Most of us have been around the activity, most much, much longer than me, so most people are pretty educated in shows, correct? So being told that they just don't get it, cause they aren't educated enough, is pretty insulting, to be honest. And after awhile, the wins don't matter. Are they great, sure! But it's not the only thing. My championship ring sits in its box, and only comes out maybe once a year or so. I still have the memories, of course, but the win really isn't all that important. I just think if everyone on here could act more like mature adults, then we'd see some more honest, and open discussions than the sniping we've gotten used to seeing.

I think it all boils down to the old saying of, "always be humble in victory, and gracious in defeat". If we saw more of that, then maybe we'd see less of the dissent among fans on here.

[fsubone]

This is True...

I was on the field in Miami in 1983 and when my corps lost to Garfield the crowd went nuts and shouted EAST EAST EAST EAST over and over. Were any of you there? can someone other than a BD alum confirm this? Does this not constitute Hometown Favoritism? BTW Jeff this was a DCI Crowd... You know, the ones that are drawn from all over.

Well, it was kind of the Cadets first championship.... especially after an East Coast corps came so close in '80.... Before '83, a West Coast corps had won every title except for one, so I think people thought it was an East Coast Corps' time. It's like the reaction for Phantom '08. The cheering was for Phantom winning, not BD losing. (I was there, almost went deaf when they announced second place)