Oregon Crusaders 3 WC Semi's Performance

[kaplac]

Acecannon: As a former marching member of the Cascades I'd just like to say that I think you underestimate the strength of the members. I can say without doubt that scores do not mentally fatigue corps members as much as you may think. Sure it's disappointing when you get scored lower than you want but it's only a motivating factor to become better.

I cannot compare the experiences that OC and Cascades have had this season to say that OC had higher corps morale or "winner's fever" but I know that Cascades have done great things this season with the show that they were given. I will welcome them back home as champions because every year they have achieved more and more organizational goals set prepare them for success.

Oregon Crusaders: Congratulations on your achievements this year!

[chasgroh]

Now imagine that at the last minute corps that you really haven't seen at shows comes in from left field, disrupting your world view. Imagine the mindset of the member of Surf, Cascades, heck, BDB beat Crossmen in drums. So the amount that you've raised the happiness of the few open class members experiencing some world class success, you've lowered (at the last minute)the mindset of those world corps members. If everyone had been on the same sheets from the get go, none of my issues would be issues.

"Happiness" quotient aside (the effect of disappointing scores doesn't last all that long when on the road if the kids are prepared mentally) I believe you hit the nail, Mr. Acecannon; same sheets makes so much sense. I've never, ever, liked the split scoring...my kids would be ready for bad scores, good scores, or NO scores for that matter. They'd be ready!

cg

[rayfallon]

Here's the truth... I'm uniform agnostic. It's kids working their tails off rain, sleet, or shine to achieve a common goal. That's drum corps, at any level. I hope Oregon continues to have success. And it would be an awesome sight to see the old guard shaking in their boots at a powerful newcomer. My issue lies with how this whole thing goes down at the last minute. I vote for putting everyone on the same sheet from the very beginning. And if OC is over Cascades or Spirit, so be it. My point is that it feels great to achieve high box scores and comparative competitive success, and all 4 of the open class corps that wrecked house this week in worlds had a real sense of success in open class competition before they arrived at Indy. You can't discount the power that wins and an increasing score (into the rarified 90s) has on the mental state of the average corps member. Now turn that around and think of the mental state of the average bottom tier world class member, barely getting out of the 60s because world is hard and that's the way the sheet goes, then finally getting to low box 4 (70s) and then staying there for a few weeks. All the while, being near the bottom of the list at shows. Now imagine that at the last minute corps that you really haven't seen at shows comes in from left field, disrupting your world view. Imagine the mindset of the member of Surf, Cascades, heck, BDB beat Crossmen in drums. So the amount that you've raised the happiness of the few open class members experiencing some world class success, you've lowered (at the last minute)the mindset of those world corps members. If everyone had been on the same sheets from the get go, none of my issues would be issues.

Ace,

You're making the lower echelon world class players sound like delicate little violets. These kids are as delicate as the 82nd Airborne Rangers. The people around them and their fans tend to be delicate, and sometimes even their staffs, especially when they lay "low scores" on the doorsteps of the judging community. These kids don't care or need such horsebleep justifications - they go out and lay it on the line night after night, trusting their staffs, their shows, and each other. If they didn't they'd never make it through a season. What do I base this opinion on? Years as a brass instructor and caption head with the (pre-finalist - including Foxboro in 1994 when they were in and then out) Boston Crusaders. You want to worry about someone's mental well-being, worry about kids who spend their summers posting their facebook profiles so that every one of their 600 BFFs can see their every thought. The kids you're worrying about wake up together on the gym floor of a school where it's 88 degrees inside, shoot the breeze over cereal and on the way to showers and then turn themselves over to their staffs so they can lay it all out again the next night.

I hope I'm wrong, but reading your commentary makes me think you haven't experienced the level of competition that the kids you're worried about have. They're not flowers, although they're beautfiful in their own ways. Worry less - show up and applaud their accomplishments, from Cadets right through Pioneer and on to Spirit of Newark. It's the only chance you'll get to interact as their profiles won't change all summer.

[audiodb]

I commend the Oregon Crusaders on a very successful year, and wish OC continued success in the future. The more corps and better those corps are from the Northwest, the more assured will be the survival of NW drum corps.

Speaking for the Cascades, I believe all our NW corps will work positively together, as we have worked together this year to jointly sponsor the four-show, NW DCI tour. I am also pleased that the Cascades, in a small way, could assist OC by loaning them three tubas for this season.

I look forward to healthy competition in 2012 of all three NW corps; the Oregon Crusaders, Spokane Thunder, and the Cascades.

Mike Bujnowski, CEO

Cascades

Mods, could we make an exception to the rules just once, so that I can "+1" this post a few extra times?

[audiodb]

Here's the thing. Now that these happy open corps have tasted world class blood, I invite them to move in in may and tour all summer, non stop, coast to coast. On world sheets by the way... Hang out in the 60s for much of the summer until near the end you break into the lower 70s, and then be happy to stay there for the rest of the season. Forget about the 80s or the 90s lol. Forget about that rush you get when you win a show, won't happen. Forget about the winners vibe you carry with you from the show to rehearsal to the bus. Nobody will care to see you roll in. Spirit or Madison or Academy won't shake with fear when they see you in the lot. It will be a slog through the hottest parts of your mind until finals when a few open corps who have spent much of the season in their own beds, travelled fewer miles, had fewer breakdowns, are at the happy top of their class, show up and beat you.

I have no idea what rock you crawled out from under....so let me ask point blank. When was the last time you went to an open-class show? When have you even looked at the open-class section of DCI.org? Do you have any idea how the open-class tour works? There's hardly any rush from winning shows, as the open-class tour whisks by in about a week. There are hardly any shows to win.

I imagine the Oregon Crusaders might want nothing more than to accept your invitation into world-class, where:

- they would actually have shows between July 5 and July 26

- they'd have 15-20 more shows

- they would get an appearance fee of about $2500 for each show (instead of $0)

- they would appear in front of larger audiences

And to even mention breakdowns, after what the corps went through in '08 (if I recall the year correctly), when their equipment trailer broke an axle the first day of tour....you know, open-class corps have breakdowns too.

Of course, it isn't your invitation that matters....the DCI participation review committee needs to recommend a corps for promotion to world-class, and the member corps directors need to approve of the move. So unless that happens, corps like OC have no choice but to work within the bounds of the open-class model, no matter how good they get at it, and no matter how annoying they become to you or to the world-class corps that they might compete against at championship week.

Don't like it? Then write DCI a nice letter, explaining why the Oregon Crusaders deserve consideration for world-class status.

Here's the truth... I'm uniform agnostic. It's kids working their tails off rain, sleet, or shine to achieve a common goal.

Don't you think the open-class corps work hard?

That's drum corps, at any level.

Oh, OK....you do. Thank you.

I hope Oregon continues to have success. And it would be an awesome sight to see the old guard shaking in their boots at a powerful newcomer. My issue lies with how this whole thing goes down at the last minute. I vote for putting everyone on the same sheet from the very beginning. And if OC is over Cascades or Spirit, so be it.

I have no problem with that. (Of course, it's not my decision.)

My point is that it feels great to achieve high box scores and comparative competitive success, and all 4 of the open class corps that wrecked house this week in worlds had a real sense of success in open class competition before they arrived at Indy. You can't discount the power that wins and an increasing score (into the rarified 90s) has on the mental state of the average corps member. Now turn that around and think of the mental state of the average bottom tier world class member, barely getting out of the 60s because world is hard and that's the way the sheet goes, then finally getting to low box 4 (70s) and then staying there for a few weeks.

Just so we know precisely what the difference was, here's how the two Northwest corps scored at their last "local" event:

Cascades 66.0 (world sheets)

Oregon Crusaders 69.6 (open sheets)

I'm sure the Cascades were at a tremendous disadvantage, demoralized by their score in the upper 60s, especially compared to the Oregon Crusaders having the luxury of a score in the rarefied....um....upper 60s.

All the while, being near the bottom of the list at shows. Now imagine that at the last minute corps that you really haven't seen at shows comes in from left field, disrupting your world view. Imagine the mindset of the member of Surf, Cascades, heck, BDB beat Crossmen in drums. So the amount that you've raised the happiness of the few open class members experiencing some world class success, you've lowered (at the last minute)the mindset of those world corps members. If everyone had been on the same sheets from the get go, none of my issues would be issues.

That's obviously false. You'd still be upset that corps who don't tour as much can come in and compete head-to-head with full-tour corps, possibly "surprising" them at the last minute. Uniform sheets won't solve that problem.

[OC Euph]

I commend the Oregon Crusaders on a very successful year, and wish OC continued success in the future. The more corps and better those corps are from the Northwest, the more assured will be the survival of NW drum corps.

Speaking for the Cascades, I believe all our NW corps will work positively together, as we have worked together this year to jointly sponsor the four-show, NW DCI tour. I am also pleased that the Cascades, in a small way, could assist OC by loaning them three tubas for this season.

I look forward to healthy competition in 2012 of all three NW corps; the Oregon Crusaders, Spokane Thunder, and the Cascades.

Mike Bujnowski, CEO

Cascades

As a former member, we do appreciate the help and generosity Cascades has shown in the past, present, and I'm sure future. I as well look forward to the future competition between the corps. I do hope the things I say don't make it seem like I hate or dislike the Cascades. Some old bickerings from the past have gotten to me a bit I admit, but I fully support Cascades in their endeavors, and want nothing more then for them to excel.

PS: I LOVED this years show! It was a hell of a lot of fun to watch! That box in the middle was in my opinion GENIUS!

Edited August 15, 2011 by OC Euph

[lindap]

I commend the Oregon Crusaders on a very successful year, and wish OC continued success in the future. The more corps and better those corps are from the Northwest, the more assured will be the survival of NW drum corps.

Speaking for the Cascades, I believe all our NW corps will work positively together, as we have worked together this year to jointly sponsor the four-show, NW DCI tour. I am also pleased that the Cascades, in a small way, could assist OC by loaning them three tubas for this season.

I look forward to healthy competition in 2012 of all three NW corps; the Oregon Crusaders, Spokane Thunder, and the Cascades.

Mike Bujnowski, CEO

Cascades

Thank you for your post. My signature says what I did a long ago. My heart belongs to Southern Ontario and the Pacific North West even though I live in northern Alberta in the Prairies.

We traveled for 13 hours to Seattle spring of 77 to participate in a winter guard contest with Imperials and Cascades. We were part of the NW region. I've rediscovered drum corps 5 years ago during which I've tried to support. Each year I pick 3 different organizations, winter guard and/or Open Class and/or World Class drum corps.

Please send me a PM with contact information for Oregon Crusaders, Spokane Thunder and the Cascades. I can send international money orders (I tried this with BK and it worked!) It's not a lot but every bit helps imo :-)

[Callawyn]

I'd never seen you until semis - VERY impressive show, OC had an amazing show and performed it very well.

Keep doing what you're doing, can't wait to see what you bring next year.

[bdeviled]

I commend the Oregon Crusaders on a very successful year, and wish OC continued success in the future. The more corps and better those corps are from the Northwest, the more assured will be the survival of NW drum corps.

Speaking for the Cascades, I believe all our NW corps will work positively together, as we have worked together this year to jointly sponsor the four-show, NW DCI tour. I am also pleased that the Cascades, in a small way, could assist OC by loaning them three tubas for this season.

I look forward to healthy competition in 2012 of all three NW corps; the Oregon Crusaders, Spokane Thunder, and the Cascades.

Mike Bujnowski, CEO

Cascades

Thank you Mike.

It's been great working with you and the Cascades this year to improve the atmosphere of cooperation between our two corps. The NW drum corps consortium for the NW shows, and Tuba loans were big steps in that direction. The NW drum corps community should be very pleased with that change of direction!

I also congratulate you and the Cascades on a great season, that demonstrated solid year to year improvements across the board.

Mike Quillen, Director

Oregon Crusaders