BRASSO Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) Back to the original topic... the choice to display or not display any flags or symbols within the drum corps activity should simply be up to the kids performing, The notion of assigning the delegation of the authority on how to display the American Flag in Corps performance each year " to the kids performing " is an abrogation of fundamental adult supervision and responsibility. In my view, to delegate such responsibility to the individual whims of each of " the kids performing " would be an act of adult recklessness and irresponsibility, imo. I would view it as sheer stupidity too for adults to leave such responsibility on how to display the American Flag in public to the whims of each marcher, each year. But eveyone looks at things differently, and thats cool too. Edited August 22, 2011 by BRASSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedawn Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (opens thread) Daniel is a communist. People who don't have respect for the Flag Code are bad people. The G7 sucks. This looks like the old CE forum. (closes thread) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glory Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I learned respect for the flag from my father, a Marine officer. I've pledged allegiance. I've sometimes had tears in my eyes singing the National Anthem. I am completely indifferent to the fact that some corps failed to place pixie-clad "guards" with plastic sabres and wooden rifle substitutes beside my nation's flag at retreat. On the contrary, I was impressed that most thought to present the flag even though it is no longer integrated into their program. Indeed, the fact that they did is best seen, in my view, not only as an honor for the nation but for the tradition from which these corps derive. HH 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totaleefree Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I am currently with the military deployed in DJibouti Africa. We have a joint base so each service has its own Sergeant Major or Senior Enlist Person. When we have a color guard it is joint all services are represented. The military regs are written and clear but every time these senior enlisted guys spend hours arguing about eh color guard. Should the Army be able to wear Combat patches, can marines wear army medals etc. not to mention the proper commands. Everone one their wants to honr the USA but just like this forum they fight over the right thing to do. I have worked with small student groups where one person alone has carried the flag with pride in front of the procession and been proud of America without an armed escort. Several year ago I was at an American lLegion COnvention teh parade had several colors guards using wooden Mock guns. Did they disrespect eh flag , no they were proud of being Americans even with toy guns. In my neighborhood over half of the houses fly a US flag on holidays I think that going to my neighbors and telling them that they are wrong to be flying a flag without an eagle would be icredibly stupid, they are proud to be Americans does it matter if they Flag has an eagle or not. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) While the minutiae of the flag code has never really held any meaning for me - and I say this after eight years of military service, not that that should really have any bearing on the subject - I do understand and respect the importance it holds for many, many Americans. So it wouldn't hurt corps to make the minimal effort it takes to get it "right". This is a good example of why eliminating retreat at every competition except for finals was overkill. Reinstating retreat at a few of the regionals would give corps a little more incentive to practice this sort of thing, and might impress upon staff and members alike of its importance. Now if corps don't want to bother with a real, proper honor guard - or an honor guard at all - fine. Honestly I feel it would be better to have just one honor guard leading the corps onto the field. It could be composed of current members drawn from a few corps, alumni, provided by some local ROTC kids, or whatever. They would get it right every time, and there would be little room for complaining. Or we could do away with this stuff at finals altogether. I love my country, and was even wounded on its behalf, but the flag code is a product of an overbearing, borderline paranoid early 20th century type of "patriotism" that we would do well to move beyond. Insisting on the SSB at every event no matter how trivial, having schoolkids recite the pledge every day, etc. . . . all this cheapens our country and its symbols, rather than reinforcing their value. There was no flag code at Valley Forge, nor was there in the Civil War. They just treated the flag with dignity and respect as best they knew how, which is what these corps are doing. And which I think is as much as anyone can ask. Just my opinion. Don't want to get too political. Edited August 22, 2011 by Rifuarian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) One other thing....I do feel bad for the ONE poster here who seems to think that flag and country have no meaning anymore. That's a very myopic view, imo. He has the right to that view, and it took the sacrifices of men and women over 235 years to ensure that right. He mentioned that he has homes in several different countries. I wonder, how many of those countries are free democracies now due to the sacrifice of American people wearing the American Flag on their shoulder during the last century?Well, let's see.... Think we might have different definitions of myopia. Anyway, human society - through advancements in technology, transportation, communication and trade - has reached a point where the idea of national identity no longer makes sense. We should certainly respect those that came before us that made considerable sacrifices to change societies, but this does not obligate us to be bound by or necessarily preserve those structures. Many have died in defense and preservation of their tribe, their duchy, their kingdom, their country, their union. Over time, each concept of a unified society has grown. We are now reaching the point where the idea of a unified society has grown to potentially cover the globe. This will happen in my children's lifetime. US soldiers have never set foot in any country where I live. Have had quite little influence at all. I'll leave it at that... to avoid this discussion veering too far into political topics. Bottom line... the future is far more interesting than the past... and humanism trumps nationalism. Edited August 22, 2011 by danielray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 There was no flag code at Valley Forge, nor was there in the Civil War. And of course, for students of American History, no explanation for this is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedyweidenthal Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 It is unfair to insinuate that this is a G8 problem. At a meeting before finals, a director of a G8 corps requested to all the directors that the colors be treated correctly and he went out of his way to insure that the paths of the corps did not cross in front of the honor guards. Being a patriotic military brat, I appreciated this director for requesting that everyone get it right. Thank you David Gibbs! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 (edited) Think we might have different definitions of myopia. Anyway, human society - through advancements in technology, transportation, communication and trade - has reached a point where the idea of national identity no longer makes sense. We should certainly respect those that came before us that made considerable sacrifices to change societies, but this does not obligate us to be bound by or necessarily preserve those structures. Many have died in defense and preservation of their tribe, their duchy, their kingdom, their country, their union. Over time, each concept of a unified society has grown. We are now reaching the point where the idea of a unified society has grown to potentially cover the globe. This will happen in my children's lifetime. US soldiers have never set foot in any country where I live. Have had quite little influence at all. I'll leave it at that... to avoid this discussion veering too far into political topics. Bottom line... the future is far more interesting than the past... and humanism trumps nationalism. I think we can all agree now that this thread has now fully devolved into political gibberish minutia ideology, totally unrelated to a couple of Drum Corps alleged improper display of the American Flag at Finals. Can we all at least agree on THIS, anyway ? Edited August 22, 2011 by BRASSO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterA Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 We had a rather large contingent of Marines (aka "The Commandant's Own" U.S. Marines Drum and Bugle Corps) present that I'm quite sure could have explained it to them and "shown them the ropes". Complete nonsense, and unneccesary. The Marine corps should not be interfering in any actvities. If DCI should choose, and then ask them to step in and help out, then not a problem. But for them to meddle in an activity that they are not even a competitor in, is ridiculous. No need to explain anything to the corps or show them the ropes. DCI didn't respond to the one poster about this issue, because it is not important to DCI. There are no rules regarding corps having to display the flag, and therefore DCI has already spoken on this issue. If the original poster is that upset on this matter, maybe they shouldn't bother going to an event where they will be sadly disappointed as such. For true fans of the activity, we had an amazing week in Indianapolis. Around 100 corps field performances, and a parade on top of that. To worry about something as trivial as a piece of material, when there is so much excitement around there is the biggest waste of time. Sad thing is alot of those pieces of material are made in other countries. And how many people wear those t-shirts that have a picture of the flag, with the slogan these colors don't run. Doesn't that go against the code of the flag to not be worn as clothing? But those shirts are available in lots of different stores for profit. It's a completely different age, and drum corps have moved on since the archaic 60's and 70's. Alot of good changes and alot of bad. And a good percentage of the corps these days have international members, so it isn't like each corps at finals is an all American corps either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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