Proposed DCI Reorganization

[garfield]

Came across this today under the heading of "Sounds Crazy Might Work", and thought it sounded appropriate to the line of thinking in this thread.

"Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of "crackpot" than the stigman of conformity." ~ Thomas J. Watson, Sr., entrepreneur

[Stu]

The quality is separate and two-fold. The quality of the judging effort is separate and distinct from the quality of the system that collates judge data, show data, circuit data, and provides the mechanism for the judges being at the show in the first place.

Local judges, qualified to judge MB circuits according the the circuit rules and requirements would be far superior to flying in judges. Certfication and continuing ed is commonly done online and via webcast now by the major circuits, and in most industries. That the judge has finished training and is part of the judging pool is the only data that the organizing system needs.

The pool of available judges would be distributed from a central organization. Those judges offer up their services to the different circuits according to which ones they care to judge, and attaining certification to judge that circuit comes from their completing the required training.

Ummm... pools of judges around the nation already exist (NJA, BOA, TOB, UIL, etc...) but most everyone still complains about the quality, or lack thereof, of their training. So, how will a "new" pool offering the same service as those other organizations be any different or better than all the old pools? Especially when Danialray has already admitted his $10k system would only be a facilitation brokerage type service without any training aspects whatsoever.

[Stu]

Came across this today under the heading of "Sounds Crazy Might Work", and thought it sounded appropriate to the line of thinking in this thread.

"Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of "crackpot" than the stigman of conformity." ~ Thomas J. Watson, Sr., entrepreneur

I agree with that quote within the context of the free-market for-profit world where you are risking your own capital (or investors are willing to risk theirs) and putting just your own hind end on the line; however, not necessarily in the world of 501c3 charitable contributions where donations are "supposed" to be funding activities for the benefit of youth.

[MikeD]

a) There are many, and I mean many areas of the country which do not have close driving access to shows put on by circuits like BOA or TOB. So, in those instances when a director is constructing a show concept, and all of the surrounding contests have wildly varied rubrics and judges with varied experiences, what should a director do? Only attend one contest? Or, accept the fact that at contest ABC the band will prosper with a modern show concept but at contest XYZ it will get shot down for not having symmetrical drill?

I'm not sure there are all that many different types these days, but even where there are multiple types of shows, I don't see the problem. There are many types of MB out there, from strict corps-style to partial to what we used to call 'big-10' style to...whatever...or as in the case of some...NO apparent style.

It would be nice to know there are shows that all can attend and get a relatively decent evaluation/placement.

In the NJ area, these independent local shows were very prominent through the 70's and 80's, fading away in the 90's mostly. Today it is pretty much USSBA and TOB. There is no place for non-corps style bands to compete anymore, if they want to score well, anyway.

b) Would you not say that the consistency in judging from one show to the next is better in formal circuits like BOA and TOB (or DCI) where formal training exists than in the various mom/pop shows where the least expensive person, or a friend, is hired to judge?

It probably is, but for the casual competition band, it might not be all that important a factor.

One thing about MB, it is not a monolithic activity focussed on one style.

c) What is the best way for mom/pop show sponsors actually secure quality judges without breaking the bank?

Local HS band directors...local theater choreographers...dance instructors...drum corps staff, if there are any nearby.

d) As for the wide variation of scoring/rubric criteria from formal circuit to formal circuit, is that a real problem? And if so, what are some solutions.

I don't see that as a problem at all. There is no need for one system in MB competition.

I have judged in two band circuits since the 70's, as well as independent shows (around 150 band shows). There is room for all sorts of judging.

[danielray]

I agree with that quote within the context of the free-market for-profit world where you are risking your own capital (or investors are willing to risk theirs) and putting just your own hind end on the line; however, not necessarily in the world of 501c3 charitable contributions where donations are "supposed" to be funding activities for the benefit of youth.

Drum corps cannot be sustained by donations. This is fact.

[GUARDLING]

Came across this today under the heading of "Sounds Crazy Might Work", and thought it sounded appropriate to the line of thinking in this thread.

"Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas to the danger of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label of "crackpot" than the stigman of conformity." ~ Thomas J. Watson, Sr., entrepreneur

very true..........and sometimes a crack pot is just a crack pot

[Stu]

MikeD:

You really contradict yourself with these quotes from your previous posting:

"One thing about MB, it is not a monolithic activity focused on one style";

"There is no place for non-corps style bands to compete anymore, if they want to score well, anyway."

"There is room for all sorts of judging."

"Today it is pretty much USSBA and TOB."

"It would be nice to know there are shows that all can attend and get a relatively decent evaluation/placement."

"I'm not sure there are all that many different types these days, but even where there are multiple types of shows, I don't see the problem."

[MikeD]

MikeD:

You really contradict yourself with these quotes from your previous posting:

"One thing about MB, it is not a monolithic activity focused on one style";

"There is no place for non-corps style bands to compete anymore, if they want to score well, anyway."

The first is about the types of bands that exist...the second about the types of competitions around these days, at least in my area.

"There is room for all sorts of judging."

"Today it is pretty much USSBA and TOB."

There is room for all sorts..there is just not a lot around anymore, esp of the local-type of independent shows...again...at least around my area. I hope other areas do have multiple types of shows available...I wish my area did...it used to.

"It would be nice to know there are shows that all can attend and get a relatively decent evaluation/placement."

"I'm not sure there are all that many different types these days, but even where there are multiple types of shows, I don't see the problem."

Right. Te first is a wish that there were a large variety of shows styles with different judging criteria to cover a wider array of band styles than there are shows today, so that bands outside of the TOB/USSBA corps-style caould compete and score. There used to be many such shows in my area. Now...they are gone. More bands compete today, but in a narrower type of competitive arena.

I m probably mixing what was...what I think should be...and what is...all together!

[Stu]

Drum corps cannot be sustained by donations. This is fact.

Drum Corps certainly can be sustained by donations if the directors and the governing body just scaled back on the massive expenditures. However, most directors are currently making expenditure decisions as if they were existing in the world of "Major League" status in which funding outside of donations cannot be sustained in the charitable world (unless you really make it a true Major League like the PGA with professional adults competing, major sponsorships, huge prize money). Those running most junior drum corps today also have lost sight of the fact that within 501c3 status for youth the focus should be on the watchful benefit of the mission to help the youth first and foremost, then utilize competition as a teaching tool. I am not against competition, and I love to compete, but what has occurred today is a reversal where the Major League status now comes first and the watchful charity for the youth has been thrown in the back seat if not the trunk. Therein lies the "real" problem because while Major Leagues (true Major League like the PGA) can raise a huge amount of capital outside of donations, Charitable Youth Organizations (like DCI) must budget according to most capital being garnered through donations. The drum corps push toward Major League is fine; but for that to occur without financial collapse the goal needs to be similar to the adult professional PGA system, or DCI should move into the for-profit world like the NFL, MLB, NASCAR, NBA, etc... However, as long as DCI is registered as a 501c3 youth charity organization directors should focus on the charity toward the youth first and foremost and budget according to what can be raised in that environment.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Stu

[garfield]

Drum Corps certainly can be sustained by donations if the directors and the governing body just scaled back on the massive expenditures. However, most directors are currently making expenditure decisions as if they were existing in the world of "Major League" status in which funding outside of donations cannot be sustained in the charitable world (unless you really make it a true Major League like the PGA with professional adults competing, major sponsorships, huge prize money). Those running most junior drum corps today also have lost sight of the fact that within 501c3 status for youth the focus should be on the watchful benefit of the mission to help the youth first and foremost, then utilize competition as a teaching tool. I am not against competition, and I love to compete, but what has occurred today is a reversal where the Major League status now comes first and the watchful charity for the youth has been thrown in the back seat if not the trunk. Therein lies the "real" problem because while Major Leagues (true Major League like the PGA) can raise a huge amount of capital outside of donations, Charitable Youth Organizations (like DCI) must budget according to most capital being garnered through donations. The drum corps push toward Major League is fine; but for that to occur without financial collapse the goal needs to be similar to the adult professional PGA system, or DCI should move into the for-profit world like the NFL, MLB, NASCAR, NBA, etc... However, as long as DCI is registered as a 501c3 youth charity organization directors should focus on the charity toward the youth first and foremost and budget according to what can be raised in that environment.

Stu, charitable donations account for about 2% of DCI's revenue and most of that comes from the Friends program. The vast, VAST, majority of DCI's "income" comes from gate sales and, as I've said here before, their "percentage from gate" is the highest among performance groups that I've ever seen.

Drum corps today is more geared towards the benefit of music major and those heading that way. It stopped being the inner-city youth organization long, long ago. You only need to see the number of MMs who FLY to auditions and camps to see this fact. Many kids, inner city and otherwise, have myriad programs available to take up their time; DCI as the savior of kids with nothing to do is no longer necessary or, even, effective because of marching costs.

Of course you could cut many of the expenses in DCI but you'd be attempting to become profitable by cutting costs, and that only works for a while. Especially in this activity where egos abound, can you imagine the backlash of "limiting creativity" if you tried to limit the number of keyboards to ONLY 3 marimbas?

There'd be more tar and feathers flying than there is directed toward some contributors in this thread!

Edited October 26, 2011 by garfield