garfield Posted December 22, 2011 Author Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) It includes everything from overspending to cutting an alternate in favor of talent when a hole opens up. Some corps make those choices and they are free to do so. Other corps refuse to do so. And that's OK too. Where I marched, we often accepted the kids who got cut from corps like Crown during tour. Philosophies are different in every corps. Some are willing to cut a member loose for less than others. On the opposite side of things, some are willing to spend a lot of money while others aren't. I have a preference on what is right and what is wrong but I'm refraining from passing explicit judgement because clearly all those organizations succeed to some degree. I agree, but I'd like to know more specifically what you mean by succeed in this context. If a corps is not advancing, how can it still succeed? Edited December 22, 2011 by garfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 You and I might disagree on this particular issue. To me, if someone is devoting 60 - 80 hours a week administering an organization, or someone is devoting 30 - 40 a week to instructing, writing music, writing drill, for various ensembles, it is fine by me if they receive market-value compensation as either employees or contractors. I dont think he'dagree with what you're saying. However, I think he's talkingabout an entirely different element of folks....the scammers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 It includes everything from overspending to cutting an alternate in favor of talent when a hole opens up. Some corps make those choices and they are free to do so. Other corps refuse to do so. And that's OK too. Where I marched, we often accepted the kids who got cut from corps like Crown during tour. Philosophies are different in every corps. Some are willing to cut a member loose for less than others. On the opposite side of things, some are willing to spend a lot of money while others aren't. I have a preference on what is right and what is wrong but I'm refraining from passing explicit judgement because clearly all those organizations succeed to some degree. This actually happened: A kid auditioned for corps xyz in November; *the kid was offered a performing position* during the camp season; he attended all camps, paid thousands in fees and another couple of thousand in travel expenses; then in early June, just prior to tour, the corps told the kid, "Umm, we just filled your spot with a better player who just arrived; so we are moving you out of your position over to equipment detail. You can do that or go home this summer (without reimbursement)". Drillman, I know you have a preference, but are you stating this is actually an *acceptable* way for a corps to operate within DCI? You seem to imply it would be the kids fault for not knowing any better. I mean we are talking about youth here not paid professional adult performers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Corps don't fill seats....DCI does. Let me explain what I mean. I've seen how fans behave for decades. When Carolina Crown was placing 16th, they weren't filling all the seats. When they were contending for the top spots, the seats filled in. The 5th-place Madison Scouts fill far more seats then the 15th-place Madison Scouts. The 15th-place Madison Scouts filled roughly the same number of seats as any other 15th-place corps. Seats don't fill up simply for "the Madison Scouts" or "Carolina Crown"....they fill up for whomever is on top at any given moment. If the 2012 season sees Pacific Crest, Mandarins, Teal Sound, Cascades, Jersey Surf and Pioneer as the dominating top six, the seats will be fullest when they are performing, and some fans will skip the performances of Cadets/Blue Devils/Cavaliers/Crown/PR/SCV to go watch Crest/Mandarins/Teal/Cascades/Surf/Pioneer in the lot. The current occupants of the top DCI spots want you to believe that "the draw" is: Cadets Blue Devils Cavaliers Crown PR SCV Bluecoats In reality, "the draw" is: DCI 1st place DCI 2nd place DCI 3rd place DCI 4th place DCI 5th place DCI 6th place DCI 7th place great point. CC and Coats werent putting ##### into the seats when say Glassmen and Boston were in that 5 or 6 spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I agree, but I'd like to know more specifically what you mean by succeed in this context. If a corps is not advancing, how can it still succeed? If the term success is just determined by competitive scoring placement, then all corps who failed to place higher in 2011 are unsuccessful (which would include the Blue Devils). However, if the term success encompassed other facets like finishing the season financially sound then that would place the Academy in the realm of success even though they moved fro 14th in 2010 to 15th in 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 I'd like to see more shows integrated with large arts or music festivals across the country... more performances outside of the traditional competition. Drum corps competitions are a bit too stiff.... and not so much of an experience as other types of events are. They should have the feel of a sort of traveling festival. one flaw. a big part of DCI and how "top corps" draw IS the scores and placements. tell ya what. Let Cadets perform at MusicFest in Bethlehem. let em charge what a top act does. see what they draw. or even a smaller act. considering despite the PR, the Cadets aren't as known in the Lehigh Valley as you may read (aka to people outside of drum corps or band world), I think that would show you that competition does help draw bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 You might be surprised that I agree with you on this idea. Hypothetically: DCI does an internet research to find out what communities, towns, cities, metropolises all across the United States are holding arts/music festivals from early June to Early Aug. Then DCI schedules their summer tours to coincide small contests with small festivals; medium contests with medium festivals, and large contests with large festivals. The OC could be scheduled for the small/medium festivals, and the WC could be scheduled with the medium/large festivals culminating with OC/WC Finals being held in a metropolis area. Small performances (like the I and E which already exists or the crowd entertainment aspect of the TOC) could appear on stages at the festivals which would prompt people to purchase tickets to the contest; discount tickets to the contest could even be offered at the stages where the small groups are performing. I think we have found a little more common ground Danielray! doesn't DCI East run the same time as MusicFest? Why is there no tie in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Corps don't fill seats....DCI does. Let me explain what I mean. I've seen how fans behave for decades. When Carolina Crown was placing 16th, they weren't filling all the seats. When they were contending for the top spots, the seats filled in. The 5th-place Madison Scouts fill far more seats then the 15th-place Madison Scouts. The 15th-place Madison Scouts filled roughly the same number of seats as any other 15th-place corps. Seats don't fill up simply for "the Madison Scouts" or "Carolina Crown"....they fill up for whomever is on top at any given moment. If the 2012 season sees Pacific Crest, Mandarins, Teal Sound, Cascades, Jersey Surf and Pioneer as the dominating top six, the seats will be fullest when they are performing, and some fans will skip the performances of Cadets/Blue Devils/Cavaliers/Crown/PR/SCV to go watch Crest/Mandarins/Teal/Cascades/Surf/Pioneer in the lot. The current occupants of the top DCI spots want you to believe that "the draw" is: Cadets Blue Devils Cavaliers Crown PR SCV Bluecoats In reality, "the draw" is: DCI 1st place DCI 2nd place DCI 3rd place DCI 4th place DCI 5th place DCI 6th place DCI 7th place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 (edited) doesn't DCI East run the same time as MusicFest? Why is there no tie in? Jeff: You know that I have been pounding bantering away with Danielray, so this is a rarity. You stated that people would not want to purchase tickets at a music fest to see corps the way they pay to see a top rock band. I agree with you! What I am talking about is having small solos and small ensembles perform on those small free-stages of entertainment placed sporadically throughout the booth areas at *arts* fests; or a few roaming small ensembles to interact with the folks strolling around the festival grounds. If DCI placed their contests in areas in conjunction with those arts fests, I really think this type of idea would become productive. Edited December 22, 2011 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Jeff: You know that I have been pounding away with Danielray, so this is a rarity. Is there, um... maybe a better way to phrase that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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