Stu Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) ok however...... offering last minute discounted tickets to people gives them a shot at lousy seats... or seats in the middle you hold back that don't get sold. trust me, sitting on the 10 doesnt inspire people to come again Hmmm, the first DCI show I went to I sat on the 5 yard line on row three (and fell in love with the quality even from that perspective). Now, of course, as a diehard fan I can see the difference, but not that first time; I was inspired from the 5 yard line that first time. Anyway..., if you are fine with empty seats past the 30's, and DCI missing out on the opportunity to introduce the genera to a whole new group of potential fans, I can see your point. However, I thought the point was getting more butts in the seats (to use your phraseology) and most of those unfilled seats are closer to the 10 yard line than the 50. So, again I am curious as to what would be the downside of introducing new people to the genera at art festivals and offering them discounted tickets to get more butts in the seats which are just going empty anyway? Edited December 23, 2011 by Stu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrillmanSop06 Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I agree, but I'd like to know more specifically what you mean by succeed in this context. If a corps is not advancing, how can it still succeed? Success can mean different things to different individuals. I can't put into words the feeling of success. And I marched in a 13th place drum corps. The competition has literally nothing to do with how successful the season was overall. This actually happened: A kid auditioned for corps xyz in November; *the kid was offered a performing position* during the camp season; he attended all camps, paid thousands in fees and another couple of thousand in travel expenses; then in early June, just prior to tour, the corps told the kid, "Umm, we just filled your spot with a better player who just arrived; so we are moving you out of your position over to equipment detail. You can do that or go home this summer (without reimbursement)". Drillman, I know you have a preference, but are you stating this is actually an *acceptable* way for a corps to operate within DCI? You seem to imply it would be the kids fault for not knowing any better. I mean we are talking about youth here not paid professional adult performers. It happens all the time. Especially in the ranks of corps who really want to move up. Those corps make choices that leave kids high and dry. And for what? Tenths of points. Doesn't sound like success to me... Then again, that's only me. It's their choice to operate in this fashion. Some corps WILL NOT do this in order to win. They'll keep members. They'll be loyal regardless of talent (within reason). I can think of 3 notorious offenders off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 i think we said the same thing..BUT DCI are corps or the corps its not something seperate...so whoever is top dogs they are still the corps There's a key distinction to be made there when specific corps disagree with DCI over what they should be paid. It is not as simple as "DCI = the corps" in that context....if it was, we'd simply split the money evenly among the 23 WC corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 However, I thought the point was getting more butts in the seats (to use your phraseology) and most of those unfilled seats are closer to the 10 yard line than the 50. That's a good point. If we want to fill more seats, we need to play to more seats. That's why I've been suggesting that we move the press box judges around. Place them in a different location at each show, without giving the corps advance notice....this would force corps to design shows to communicate to the whole concert-side seating area, rather than focusing solely on the press box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Jeff: You know that I have been pounding bantering away with Danielray, so this is a rarity. You stated that people would not want to purchase tickets at a music fest to see corps the way they pay to see a top rock band. I agree with you! What I am talking about is having small solos and small ensembles perform on those small free-stages of entertainment placed sporadically throughout the booth areas at *arts* fests; or a few roaming small ensembles to interact with the folks strolling around the festival grounds. If DCI placed their contests in areas in conjunction with those arts fests, I really think this type of idea would become productive. Many times (BITD) shows actually used to be tied to festivals and community events; and this type of collaboration can still be quite successful. This past season (last weekend of August, 2011), The Kilties were invited to perform at a Racine Symphony Orchestra concert. The Racine Symphony Orchestra is quite an accomplished group.......outstanding! The invitation developed into a collaborative effort between The Kilties and the RSO. Creative forces from both groups came together and ended up producing one exciting event. The RSO performed as a group for the opening portion, The Kilties performed select concert tunes and our 2011 field show music; then both groups joined together to perform the 1812 Overture (top to bottom) and closed the evening event with a rousing Stars and Stripes Forever. The two groups spent approximately only one hour together rehearsing the special arrangements and pulling final details together; both groups held seperate rehearsals prior. With The Kilties, we went through the special arranged numbers from time to time during the season as a part of our normal warm-ups. Bottom line.........the special evening was the highest attended event the RSO ever had in it's 80 or so year history. It was literally packed and standing room only in the concert hall (in the thousands attended), tickets sold out (literally) weeks ahead of time and the patrons went nuts over the individual group performances of each organization.......and when The Kilties and RSO combined forces for "1812"; well....it was just crazy; patrons were going wild. THEN, to encore with both groups performing "Stars and Stripes" together!!! WOW!! In short, any collaboration that will successfully bring two utterly completely different musical groups together brings broad awareness and mutual appreciation of the arts......which, many times, places "cheeks in the seats". This holds true to performing in what one may think would be the "least expected places" such as festivals, art fairs, etc. Bring the mountain to them........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Question about your proposal, garfield.... Non-member corps with balance sheets of $500m or less get full support from DCI. Corps with balance sheets of $500m to $750m would get reduced financial support, and those with balance sheets over $750m would get minimum financial support from DCI. Once a corps' balance sheet crosses $1mm, that corps must PAY DCI to participate in its sponsored shows. I've noticed that corps with bingo or similar charitable gaming setups don't all do their accounting the same way. Some include the gross receipts (and expenses) of their gaming on their 990s, thus creating much larger numbers on their balance sheets. How would you treat this? For example, say both corps A and corps B cost $500,000 to operate in a given year. Both corps raise 90% of this money via appearance fees and revenue sharing from DCI, member dues, and souvie sales. For the remaining $50,000, corps A conducts a series of labor-intensive fundraisers (i.e. car washes, recycling drives). Corps B raises their $50,000 from a bingo operation that grosses $4,000,000, paying out $3,950,000 in prizes and expenses of operation, thus returning $50,000 to the corps. Do you consider corps B's balance sheet to be $500,000 or $4,450,000? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 That's a good point. If we want to fill more seats, we need to play to more seats. That's why I've been suggesting that we move the press box judges around. Place them in a different location at each show, without giving the corps advance notice....this would force corps to design shows to communicate to the whole concert-side seating area, rather than focusing solely on the press box. Hey! This is my idea! You stole it from me... I really don't know who made the statement first and I don't care. I absolutely agree. I even suggested they use those court stenographer voice cones. If the speakers are pointed at the box the experience degrades the farther away the seats are from the box. Move the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedawn Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I think that Daniel, Stu, and Garfield should start ther own forum. They could call it NBC.com You mean only really watched by people who are generally younger, more educated, and more affluent? OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 Question about your proposal, garfield.... I've noticed that corps with bingo or similar charitable gaming setups don't all do their accounting the same way. Some include the gross receipts (and expenses) of their gaming on their 990s, thus creating much larger numbers on their balance sheets. How would you treat this? For example, say both corps A and corps B cost $500,000 to operate in a given year. Both corps raise 90% of this money via appearance fees and revenue sharing from DCI, member dues, and souvie sales. For the remaining $50,000, corps A conducts a series of labor-intensive fundraisers (i.e. car washes, recycling drives). Corps B raises their $50,000 from a bingo operation that grosses $4,000,000, paying out $3,950,000 in prizes and expenses of operation, thus returning $50,000 to the corps. Do you consider corps B's balance sheet to be $500,000 or $4,450,000? Interesting that you should bring this up. I started this thought on Guidestar last night and I found some common ground to compare, but it's still very uncertain with the vagaries of required reporting. Every corps seems to report things differently. I think using the notion of the balance sheet, the assets, is the wrong approach for several reasons, not the least of which is that when you look at actual assets, it's major component is usually real estate. Equipment is included, of course, but what you find is that most corps are not "rich" in the balance sheet notion. They spend nearly all (or more) of their income each year and, generally, other than depreciation or swapping out an old vehicle or unis, the assets don't change much. I think the correct approach is the income statement, and this is where most 990's really fall in their reliability for comparison due to reporting differences. The one common ground, however, is that most corps spend nearly all that they bring in, so comparing incomes is not a bad comparison. On every 990 there is a line for "Gross Receipts". Under the notion that the corps spends it all, you see some interesting things: All 2009 data: Placement Name Gross Receipts 15 Academy $618,754 11th BS $930,671 8th Boston $774,770 4th Crown $1,362,113 There's is a line of income called "Program Service Revenue" which is supposedly income from shows and the like. But the "like" part makes it a non-starter because not all corps report literally "Programs", and so many corps have different programs they run. I think the idea of DCI support related to what was spent "in mission" is important, and the idea, specifically, that the higher up the chain of success a corps rises (under the current system) their dependence on DCI decreases. I've been compiling some data, but I'm not ready to release any conclusions. Maybe later today... To specifically answer your question, audiodb, you're mixing assets and income in your example. The corps that has gross income of $4mm and pays out all but $50m doesn't add $4mm to it's assets, it adds $50m, if it's not spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 You mean only really watched by people who are generally younger, more educated, and more affluent? OK. funny clip. The membership is small but feisty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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