chaddyt Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I don't think that the vast majority of Drum Corps fans " hate on BD " at all. I reject that premise. Sure some do... for any number of reasons. But if a Corps gets a lukewarm reception from an audience at a variety of venues, and across a cross section of the country, it would be folly to attribute that tepid response at the completion of the show performance to " placement ". By and large, people pay money to go see a show to be entertained. Unless they have some connection to a Corps, the placement is ancillary to whether or not a particular Corps show was entertaining for them or not ( however one defines " entertaining " ). From my observation, BD received a more favorable national audience response to their show last year where they finished 2nd, 3rd in a lot of shows than the year before where they went undefeated from start to finish. The reason was that more people seemed to enjoy last years show design a bit better than the year tey went undefeated in 2010. Trying to figure how why BD got a bit better reception with national audiences in 2011 than in 2010 is not like trying to understand the inner workings of nuclear physics, you know ? I wasn't really struggling with that question. Think it's pretty common knowledge that they got a better reception this year because their show was able to connect with more people in a positive way. My point is that any criticism of BD lately is too easily chalked up to "hate", IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I wasn't really struggling with that question. Think it's pretty common knowledge that they got a better reception this year because their show was able to connect with more people in a positive way. My point is that any criticism of BD lately is too easily chalked up to "hate", IMO. If some misguided fans want to attribute all criticism of BD to " hate ", thats their problem. Don't make it yours. I think its pretty easy after a bit to see if the criticism from a person with BD is a permanent " hate " no matter what this Corps does. Its pretty easy to chalk that up to what it is. But the vast amount of criticism a Corps like BD gets of late is probably just a genuine dissappointment in their entertainment value, despite the good and solid placement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Apparently, there is no room for humor on this thread.... And this is why this thread will continue in the extremes. NO ONE (and I used the caps on purpose) is suggesting these extreme and vitriolic comments. This is a thread about BD and "hate" OK, stop right there. "Hate" is vitriolic. The vitriol in this thread began with it's title. and we (or some of us) are attempting to define how it manifests itself (either real or perceived). How it manifests itself, whether real or not? Indeed. I haven't heard a single comment on this thread that suggests anything like your absurd notions. Really? Well, like you say, you hear what you want to hear.... 2008 had several simultaneous components occurring at once, culminating at finals. First and foremost, PR's remarkable story of a show and superb performance; BD's coming off of yet another championship; BD's nearly perfect run in 08 (only one loss until finals); BD's off the wall show design that received (if you remember) big wins and mixed reviews from the peanut gallery claiming non-demanding drill, etc.; PR's possibility of winning one by themselves (no sharing); PR's big move at the end and their superb show edits; and ABBD. One final disturbing component was the "comfort level" that some DCI fans felt with booing, having learned that it is somehow excepted behavior during the Cadets attempt to explore new show designs (for me, one of the saddest chapters in my brief history with DCI). All of these contributed to the perfect storm resulting in the tumultuous response at finals with the 2nd place score being announced. At least you confined yourself to the crowd response to score announcements. But this thread contains several assertions that general audience response to BD and/or rival corps is audibly affected by a similarly contrived storyline that far too few people could even be aware of in the first place. Oh, it was because PR hadn't won outright yet....oh, it was because the Cadets had narration....oh, it was because BD wins too much....oh, it was ABBD....oh, it was the hashmarks....and so on. But it definitely, never possibly could have anything to do with the show itself. Now I realize what "ABBD" really stands for...."anything but boring design". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bari Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Really? Well, like you say, you hear what you want to hear.... At least you confined yourself to the crowd response to score announcements. But this thread contains several assertions that general audience response to BD and/or rival corps is audibly affected by a similarly contrived storyline that far too few people could even be aware of in the first place. Oh, it was because PR hadn't won outright yet....oh, it was because the Cadets had narration....oh, it was because BD wins too much....oh, it was ABBD....oh, it was the hashmarks....and so on. But it definitely, never possibly could have anything to do with the show itself. Now I realize what "ABBD" really stands for...."anything but boring design". I thought you might want to have this above statement bolded... Since perception is reality... You seem to paint with a fairly large brush for one that doesn't want to be "bristled" I "ONLY" refer to placement applause when I discuss scenarios that are as heated as this one. It is probable that many others without feeling the need to do so, feel the same... I could care less if you are sitting on your hands when corps a, b or c are done with their show, although I do feel the performers deserve to have some applause. What gets to me is when the audience goes nuts when 2nd place or whatever lower place is announced, some of that is the winners being excited for themselves as well as their homers... but to say that there are NO naysayers who would applaud a consistently top placing performer not placing as high as they would have liked, is being a little ummmm... Naive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) to say that there are NO naysayers who would applaud a consistently top placing performer not placing as high as they would have liked, is being a little ummmm... Naive... True. I think its fair to acknowledge that there are BD " haters " out there, and it has nothing to do with their show with that segment of the Drum Corps fanbase. I think its also fair to acknowledge that those that attribute all the " hate " that BD gets is because " they've won a lot of DCI Titles " is likewise " a little " naive ". I do agree with the sentiment that the thread title is inflammatory right from the getgo, and presumes there is a lot of BD hate among the newer DCI fan base these days. I have not noticed it at the shows I've attended the last few years. I think most people that are not homers for a particular Corps respond simply to what they see and hear in the show with a Corps. They either like it. Don't like it. Or feel something in between. And for the vast majority of those in national audiences there is no " hate " for BD. So the premise is a false one right from the pjorative word ( "hate " ) utilized in the thread title, imo. Edited January 15, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Apparently, there is no room for humor on this thread.... OK, stop right there. "Hate" is vitriolic. The vitriol in this thread began with it's title. How it manifests itself, whether real or not? Indeed. Really? Well, like you say, you hear what you want to hear.... At least you confined yourself to the crowd response to score announcements. But this thread contains several assertions that general audience response to BD and/or rival corps is audibly affected by a similarly contrived storyline that far too few people could even be aware of in the first place. Oh, it was because PR hadn't won outright yet....oh, it was because the Cadets had narration....oh, it was because BD wins too much....oh, it was ABBD....oh, it was the hashmarks....and so on. But it definitely, never possibly could have anything to do with the show itself. Now I realize what "ABBD" really stands for...."anything but boring design". MY QUOTE THAT YOU RESPONDED TO: "First and foremost, PR's remarkable story of a show and superb performance; BD's coming off of yet another championship; BD's nearly perfect run in 08 (only one loss until finals); BD's off the wall show design that received (if you remember) big wins and mixed reviews from the peanut gallery claiming non-demanding drill, etc.; PR's possibility of winning one by themselves (no sharing); PR's big move at the end and their superb show edits; and ABBD." In previous conversations with you I always felt that although we may have been on different sides of a discussion, you were always thoughtful and followed the conversation......I'm not certain about that anymore. Extremes.....not good! BTW..your last comment...pretty tacky! Edited January 15, 2012 by Plan9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audiodb Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 MY QUOTE THAT YOU RESPONDED TO: "First and foremost, PR's remarkable story of a show and superb performance; BD's coming off of yet another championship; BD's nearly perfect run in 08 (only one loss until finals); BD's off the wall show design that received (if you remember) big wins and mixed reviews from the peanut gallery claiming non-demanding drill, etc.; PR's possibility of winning one by themselves (no sharing); PR's big move at the end and their superb show edits; and ABBD." In previous conversations with you I always felt that although we may have been on different sides of a discussion, you were always thoughtful and followed the conversation......I'm not certain about that anymore. I'm glad you mentioned "following the conversation". In that regard, let's review what I just posted: "At least you confined yourself to the crowd response to score announcements. But this thread contains several assertions that...." See the distinction? You spoke specfically about the score announcements. Others made assertions about crowd reactions to the shows themselves. My comments that followed, therefore, focused on what other posters had to say....most notably, the tinfoil-hat theory that all Eastern audiences are biased against BD, and the claim that audience response for 2011 BD dropped audibly for two days in August when they were winning by fractions of a point, then audibly boosted again when someone else won by fractions of a point. But alright, you want a thoughtful response to you. OK. Since you mention "claims of non-demanding drill" as a factor potentially influencing crowd reaction to BD in '08, shouldn't you be a little more open to the likelihood that reactions to BD '09 and '10 had a lot to do with show design....especially when people say exactly that when asked? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InspaDave Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Is there any possibility that this topic could be closed? I think it is obvious there is no longer any good discussion going on. There are two sides to this issue, and neither side will be able to make the other see their on it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I'm glad you mentioned "following the conversation". In that regard, let's review what I just posted: "At least you confined yourself to the crowd response to score announcements. But this thread contains several assertions that...." See the distinction? You spoke specfically about the score announcements. Others made assertions about crowd reactions to the shows themselves. My comments that followed, therefore, focused on what other posters had to say....most notably, the tinfoil-hat theory that all Eastern audiences are biased against BD, and the claim that audience response for 2011 BD dropped audibly for two days in August when they were winning by fractions of a point, then audibly boosted again when someone else won by fractions of a point. But alright, you want a thoughtful response to you. OK. Since you mention "claims of non-demanding drill" as a factor potentially influencing crowd reaction to BD in '08, shouldn't you be a little more open to the likelihood that reactions to BD '09 and '10 had a lot to do with show design....especially when people say exactly that when asked? Absolutely! That's part of the fun of DCP, dissecting everything from show design, our differences with the judges, what we think audience response could mean, and yes....our prevailing prejudices about our favorites. There were plenty of folks that couldn't get what BD designers were going for (increasingly from 08 to10, perhaps too complex, too non-traditional, too abstract, too avante garde, and other descriptions that are less kind)....and when they didn't just beat the competition, they seemed to be on another scoring level....it was met with everything from admiration to puzzlement to anger. My analysis has never assigned any one reason for the responses at finals 08-10. And I certainly don't think anyone on this thread or otherwise has the inside track. All of the things I mentioned (IMO) were at play at the 08 finals.....with PR's remarkable show, one of them. That's all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaddyt Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 [/b] Absolutely! That's part of the fun of DCP, dissecting everything from show design, our differences with the judges, what we think audience response could mean, and yes....our prevailing prejudices about our favorites. There were plenty of folks that couldn't get what BD designers were going for (increasingly from 08 to10, perhaps too complex, too non-traditional, too abstract, too avante garde, and other descriptions that are less kind)....and when they didn't just beat the competition, they seemed to be on another scoring level....it was met with everything from admiration to puzzlement to anger. My analysis has never assigned any one reason for the responses at finals 08-10. And I certainly don't think anyone on this thread or otherwise has the inside track. All of the things I mentioned (IMO) were at play at the 08 finals.....with PR's remarkable show, one of them. That's all. I hope you're also allowing for the fact that maybe people DID get what they were going for and STILL didn't like the show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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