Jeff Ream Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I understand the logic here, and it seems to make sense on its surface. However... Let's assume that a corps is scheduled for one big show in Atlanta, and another in Allentown two weeks later. The corps have to travel that roughly 700 miles in two weeks. Along the way, there are, potentially, two or three "local" shows that a bunch of those corps can participate in, and possibly get housing and exposure along the way. Why wouldn't they do those shows? Early season, in any location, the DCI fee for a top-12 corps approaches $3000, and late season it's $5000. If the corps have to stay overnight on their travels to the next big show, why wouldn't they use the housing, practice fields, and exposure that the local show provides? Is it that they need the practice time? They get that except for the 4 or 5 hours during show time. They also get housing, showers, and the chance to do a clinic and expose local kids to their corps. I understand the logic of holding only a limited number of shows during the season, but does it really make sense in financial, exposure, and logistics reasons? If they go directly from Atlanta to Allentown they'll have two weeks of housing to deal with and lots of practice time. But, for what? Wouldn't doing two or three shows and making $10,000 to $15,000 during that two weeks make more sense? darn you using logic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 How many years ago was it THAT ALL THE LOCAL SHOWS IN YOUR AREA WERE PACKED JEFF, Is it possible that we have "lost" some of those fans due to any number of reasons? Is it a for sure bet that ALL THOSE people will be there if a bunch of smaller local shows spring up again? I just bet not... If there were a market that would be profitable, it would be getting some exposure... If I am wrong, you have the opportunity to prove it, Just submit all the current demographic information that will prove that DCI, DCI Corps and DCI Show Sponsors will not lose money on this venture and I just bet you can have your shows back... Oh... Since there isn't currentlty a show sponsor available to take the risk... Are you up for it? Fans, who in many cases wouldn't want to go to the smaller local show... Or maybe fans that do not exist any longer... uh lets see...3 years? Then as the tour continued becoming more and more national, we lost those shows because they couldnt get dates. One was lost due to venue issues, but the hershey thing is well documented.The rest..."sorry, the tour is going elsewhere when you usually held your show" The shows made money, even the ones run by YEA who is notorious for handing out freebies at the last minute to fill up the empties. the sponsors gave up trying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 They can attend them online. Again, if loads of little shows all over everywhere were actually profitable, then there would be more. Guess what....the average fan that went to local shows went to it for one reason...it was local. Those fans are buying the fan network. only the diehards are buying the fan network Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I'm not sure whether you agree with my premise or not. You're right, $10,000 to $15,000 in revenue would be paid to the corps who do those 2 or 3 shows. If they have to drive out of their way even 100 miles it would be worth it. Especially if they get a day or two extra at each stop for practice time. Honest question: How much does a typical top-12 corps make in souvie sales at, say, Allentown or Atlanta. Honest question. How does that compare to the $3000 to $5000 they might make for doing a local show? I have a hard time rationalizing that there's no financial benefit to diverting between major shows to do local shows. When I add in the exposure and the other benefits (housing, etc), as long as it's not a loss to the corps, I fail to see how it can't be accretive to the corps' overall mission. oh you used logic again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 They can attend them online. Again, if loads of little shows all over everywhere were actually profitable, then there would be more. This is not a viable alternative. Online is great for hard-core fans but it's an ineffective substitute for the casual/new fan. When a dedicated fan watches the FN live, their experience is strongly colored by past experience at live events. That experience serves as a proxy for the real excitement at a live event. Even so -- many (most) of us go to chat rooms or DCP or gather together in live settings to add just a little of the social aspect of live attendance. *We* think FN is awesome but only because we all can draw upon past live shows to "fill in" much of the experience. The casual / new fan has litte to no such experience to draw upon. Watching FN without having experienced a live event is most likely *not* a very rewarding experience. I remember the first time I saw winterguard shows on video, I was less than impressed. My view changed substantially after going to Dayton :-) If you're interested in shrinking the fan base, then having only large shows plus the FN is a great recipe. If you're interested in building the fan base, then having as many shows as possible (to maximize direct experience with the product) would seem to be the best strategy. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I do suppose, however, that if the activity were subsidized by corporations and other partnerships, it's possible that corps would be staying in hotels, and potentially flying across country to join a tour. In that case all the ancillary benefits of doing local shows, housing, practice fields, and exposure, would be unimportant I can see the condensed schedule as being a reflection of corporate mandate and/or partnership funding. A consequence that's viewed as unintended by some, and anticipated by others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) This is not a viable alternative. Online is great for hard-core fans but it's an ineffective substitute for the casual/new fan. When a dedicated fan watches the FN live, their experience is strongly colored by past experience at live events. That experience serves as a proxy for the real excitement at a live event. Even so -- many (most) of us go to chat rooms or DCP or gather together in live settings to add just a little of the social aspect of live attendance. *We* think FN is awesome but only because we all can draw upon past live shows to "fill in" much of the experience. The casual / new fan has litte to no such experience to draw upon. Watching FN without having experienced a live event is most likely *not* a very rewarding experience. I remember the first time I saw winterguard shows on video, I was less than impressed. My view changed substantially after going to Dayton :-) If you're interested in shrinking the fan base, then having only large shows plus the FN is a great recipe. If you're interested in building the fan base, then having as many shows as possible (to maximize direct experience with the product) would seem to be the best strategy. You just did the Big Mac monologue from Barcelona. :-) Anyway, if a smaller show is not a stop along the way to a larger one, it makes no sense. It is not viable as standalone. Also, live shows are an extremely inefficient way to grow the fan base. This needs to be done in schools and online. On that note... there needs to be more exploration and creativity in terms of ways to generate revenue. I can't think of one business out there, except maybe outside of the oil industry, that operates even close to the same way that it did 30 years ago. It is interesting that there are at least some discussion within those driving the activity as to where the future really should be. The survey this past week is indication of this... ...but, this survey seemed like there was already an idea or action that was simply in search of validation. There was nothing in it that was actually curious.. that was actually trying to arrive at clear identification of opportunities... It might have qualified an opportunity or two... but did not QUANTIFY it... which made most of the exercise meaningless. Opinions are only meaningful when there is a way to actually quantify the opportunity. All I can gather from the questions asked were asked is that is that there were some conclusions they were looking for validation on: - Consolidation of online efforts might not be a bad idea, and WGI seems to be a bit better than some... so, let's do that - DCA is Green Eggs and Ham On the first point, ok, cool... that saved maybe $100k across DCI, WGI and MFA/BOA combined. Hardly worth the effort. The second point... show me, don't tell me (HUGE hole in their questions... didn't ask if you have ever seen video). The HUGE questions missing from the survey were the things related to actual revenue... to isolate exactly what people are paying for and aren't paying for... what different segments find a specific value in compared to others... to be able to SEGMENT communication and offers to different groups and to also identify potential revenues that are currently falling through the cracks. First... About shows, DISTANCE, COST and LINEUP were not even mentioned. This is valuable, because... the way these factors interplay certainly determine potential turnout. This is the information that really mattered, to be honest. Next... Questions were asked about how much is spent during a typical season or show, etc., but is not broken down into what.... this is THE important info. This is the info you use for connecting with local show sponsors... and to identify the right mix of offerings (maybe lower ticket prices but some other add-ons or impulse purchases could actually boost NET REVENUES??? Who knows?). Finally... Questions were asked about consuming drum corps/band/etc. content online... but not about willingness to pay for it and the sort of threshold of value in terms of paying for it. It also didn't address the fact of how their habits of consuming or purchasing drum corps content compare to other types of content they purchase... if they would be more likely to purchase more content if it was available in the channels they were already purchasing from... and what % of the content they are consuming is actually legal. Those are the questions that relate to revenue. The other questions were just looking for validation to support an already identified path. No big deal... just... some missed opportunities... and the fact they are doing this at all is a good thing. Edited March 3, 2012 by danielray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) Guess what....the average fan that went to local shows went to it for one reason...it was local. Those fans are buying the fan network. only the diehards are buying the fan network Things go in trends and often in cycles..... in front of or behind the wave.... you only get wet. You need to be ON TOP... in the CURRENT moment. When I was a kid, the milkman came our door and delivered milk, bread, eggs, the basics. The milkman died out... and for a number of years, I got in the car and drove to the market. Now, I order ALL my groceries online automatically on a schedule and have them delivered to my door. The concept of the milkman came back... and well beyond. My point is... the past is interesting for only for inspiration. Don't try to recreate it... and only bring back what is relevant to now and what you can significantly improve on. The demographics of the drum corps fan are changing. This isn't a bad thing. Instead of lamenting it or fighting it.. embrace and extend. What is the local show equivalent of Milkman 2.0? I'd say it is the internet, particularly online video. Rather than limiting this and trying to sell the content... FREE the content... and sell the things around it. This free content could generate demand for other services, including soft goods and even live shows... in ways and geographies that were previously not possible. Edited March 3, 2012 by danielray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 ...snip... Finally... Questions were asked about consuming drum corps/band/etc. content online... but not about willingness to pay for it and the sort of threshold of value in terms of paying for it. It also didn't address the fact of how their habits of consuming or purchasing drum corps content compare to other types of content they purchase... if they would be more likely to purchase more content if it was available in the channels they were already purchasing from... and what % of the content they are consuming is actually legal. Those are the questions that relate to revenue. The other questions were just looking for validation to support an already identified path. No big deal... just... some missed opportunities... and the fact they are doing this at all is a good thing. Ok, I'll be the first to admit my ignorance (I have been quite distracted recently). Dan, what survey? Details, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Why not profit? Here's a loaded question. If you're making more than you need to take care of expenses and salaries, why not lower the costs to the membership in terms of fees? 3500 dollars is pretty significant. That's over two years of my car payment. That;s a full semester here at the local Community College. If you took the money and cut everyone's dues.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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