The Loudest Hornline of 2011?

[bmjfelts1988]

I posted this back in Sep after 2011 Finals--for reference only, not implying anything scientific, your measurements/perceptions may vary, etc.

ATL Thread

Indy Prelim Thread

======================================================================================

[i thought this might be better in its own thread since it's really about the Indy Preliminaries measurements.]

I really didn't have great seats for Prelims this year -- Section 139 Row 23 Seat 10 which is the next to last row in the back of the lower section on about the right 40 yd line -- so I was considering not posting the Prelim measurements, but why not? Overall, it looks like the Prelims were a few dB below Atlanta mainly because I was a bit further back.

Below, the first number is from Atlanta, the 2nd number is the Indy Prelim measurement (loudest value).

We'll try again next year. I promise I'll upgrade my meter so I won't have to switch ranges, so I won't miss anything.

Oregon Crusaders: N/A 104

Blue Devils B: N/A 107

Pioneer: 106 101

Jersey Surf: 112 112

Teal Sound: 109 105

Mandarins: 109 104

Cascades: 110 106

Crossmen: 112 107 (Prelims: Warmup facing backfield 92 dB)

Pacific Crest: 108 104

Colts: 111 110

The Academy: 110 105

Glassmen: 113 111

Troopers: 110 107

Blue Knights: 108 102

Blue Stars: 108 105

Spirit of Atlanta: 113 108

Santa Clara Vanguard: 111 106

Boston Crusaders: 107 104

Madison Scouts: 119 115

Bluecoats: 111 107

Phantom Regiment: 114 111

Carolina Crown: 120+ 115

The Cavaliers: 113 113

The Cadets: 110 104

Blue Devils: 109 110

This looks much more accurate to me. I believe every number of it.

Edited April 19, 2012 by bmjfelts1988

[bmjfelts1988]

I posted this back in Sep after 2011 Finals--for reference only, not implying anything scientific, your measurements/perceptions may vary, etc.

ATL Thread

Indy Prelim Thread

======================================================================================

[i thought this might be better in its own thread since it's really about the Indy Preliminaries measurements.]

I really didn't have great seats for Prelims this year -- Section 139 Row 23 Seat 10 which is the next to last row in the back of the lower section on about the right 40 yd line -- so I was considering not posting the Prelim measurements, but why not? Overall, it looks like the Prelims were a few dB below Atlanta mainly because I was a bit further back.

Below, the first number is from Atlanta, the 2nd number is the Indy Prelim measurement (loudest value).

We'll try again next year. I promise I'll upgrade my meter so I won't have to switch ranges, so I won't miss anything.

Oregon Crusaders: N/A 104

Blue Devils B: N/A 107

Pioneer: 106 101

Jersey Surf: 112 112

Teal Sound: 109 105

Mandarins: 109 104

Cascades: 110 106

Crossmen: 112 107 (Prelims: Warmup facing backfield 92 dB)

Pacific Crest: 108 104

Colts: 111 110

The Academy: 110 105

Glassmen: 113 111

Troopers: 110 107

Blue Knights: 108 102

Blue Stars: 108 105

Spirit of Atlanta: 113 108

Santa Clara Vanguard: 111 106

Boston Crusaders: 107 104

Madison Scouts: 119 115

Bluecoats: 111 107

Phantom Regiment: 114 111

Carolina Crown: 120+ 115

The Cavaliers: 113 113

The Cadets: 110 104

Blue Devils: 109 110

Oh, that settles it once and for all. Pioneer is the loudest hornline in DCI.

Uh, how do you come to the that conclusion from the numbers in the above post? Pioneer's peak according to the above was "106"...and that is higher than Carolina Crown's 120 and Madison's 119 how?

I do realize you were being sarcastic but within your sarcasm is the implication that the above poster listed numbers that indicated "Pioneer was the loudest"? Sorry, I don't get how you could have read CrownBariDad's post that way. Please explain.

Edited April 19, 2012 by bmjfelts1988

[CrownBariDad]

It's my civic duty to remind everyone that volume measured by devices (ie, Physics) is totally different than what humans perceive as loud (Physiology).

Totally agree!

Also, the OP specifically targeted the loudest hornline. My measurements above included the entire Corps--brass, battery, and pit. As was noted last year, my measuring position down front may have picked up more PA reinforcement than the brass who typically aim for the pressbox.

[GeneralTsoChicken]

*edited to be less abbrasive*

Nothing personal, but I don't believe any of this. I know people who had DB meters (and who had to have them) that got very different results.

You can "don't believe any of this" all you want. I was at the 50 for the Omaha, Nebraska show and both Allentown events. I was surrounded by several hundred people that could easily see me. In fact, this may out my anonymity a bit, but I don't care. Don't call me a liar.

You, on the other hand, claim to have had access to the sound editor/recorders data on volume? That, sir, is what sounds far fetched.

[GeneralTsoChicken]

It's my civic duty to remind everyone that volume measured by devices (ie, Physics) is totally different than what humans perceive as loud (Physiology).

Yeah, jet engines are physically loud, but who'd want to listen to them? I feel that way about some hornlines, especially in the G Bugle days.

Agreed completely. That's why I was surprised by Madison's and Cadets' numbers. They always seem very, VERY loud to me. But a lot of their characteristic sounds (the proprietary sounds of the corps themselves) are wide/broad sounds. I think that the fact they spread messes with how a device like that perceives things. That dissonance in the Cadets show probably altered the number as well.

[bmjfelts1988]

Agreed completely. That's why I was surprised by Madison's and Cadets' numbers. They always seem very, VERY loud to me. But a lot of their characteristic sounds (the proprietary sounds of the corps themselves) are wide/broad sounds. I think that the fact they spread messes with how a device like that perceives things. That dissonance in the Cadets show probably altered the number as well.

I was about to pounce on your previous post but now that I read this, I think we're fine (no need to do this ) because this too is part of the point I was trying to make prior to my edit. I'll rehash my prior edit a bit...

You make reference to your reading on Madison being a matter of "forced sounds". However, that flies in the face with what you agreed with above. All the different variables. Volume of the electronics, percussion etc all weigh into your DB reading. Yet, you make a hasty conclusion in your original post (or appeared to) that it was all the hornline's fault for "forced sounds" that caused your lower readings. I have a hard time with that one.

All of that aside. To touch on (but not pounce) your previous post. I do scratch my head over the fact that we have you plus CrownBariDad who are claiming DB data, yet the data he posted does not match what you said in your previous post at all. In fact, you didn't really post any data. You told us that you had a DB meter and Madison was low, yadda yadda yadda....and we are supposed to just take your word for it? Meanwhile, we have CrownBariDad who actually posts a complete list of data from two events. I'm sorry, but his is just easier to believe than yours. Sorry.

Edited April 19, 2012 by bmjfelts1988

[GeneralTsoChicken]

I was about to pounce on your previous post but now that I read this, I think we're fine (no need to do this ) because this too is part of the point I was trying to make prior to my edit. I'll rehash my prior edit a bit...

You make reference to your reading on Madison being a matter of "forced sounds". However, that flies in the face with what you agreed with above. All the different variables. Volume of the electronics, percussion etc all weigh into your DB reading. Yet, you make a hasty conclusion in your original post (or appeared to) that it was all the hornline's fault for "forced sounds" that caused your lower readings. I have a hard time with that one.

All of that aside. To touch on (but not pounce) your previous post. I do scratch my head over the fact that we have you plus CrownBariDad who are claiming DB data, yet the data he posted does not match what you said in your previous post at all. In fact, you didn't really post any data. You told us that you had a DB meter and Madison was low, yadda yadda yadda....and we are supposed to just take your word for it? Meanwhile, we have CrownBariDad who actually posts a complete list of data from two events. I'm sorry, but his is just easier to believe than yours. Sorry.

Still attacking my credibility, witnessed by hundreds, while not providing your data from the recording/editors that you talked about before you mysteriously edited them away?

Also, getting different numbers from different venues, different spots in the facilities, different equipment, and different times of the season hardly discredits my data. That's called variation.

And yes, Cadets and Madison DO force their sounds. You take it in the butt hurt way, but you shouldn't. Like I said, and have said all along, these corps have a proprietary sound. Thats GOOD not bad. I LIKE that they don't sound like everyone else. I also said that they sound louder to me personally. The Cadets sound different, broad, forced. Their instrumentation isn't vastly different than anyone elses, that's just the way they sound. If you can't hear that, then I wonder what you hear when you listen to hornlines. That's the Cadets sound. As long as they do it consistently from player to player, I don't see an issue.

I do give the Cadets a hard time, but they are my favorite corps outside of my alma maters. I support Cadets members, support the Cadets monetarily, and enjoy listening to the Cadets. I also see no issues with the way they educate their members, or how they produce their sounds---I just think the recent trend for many corps is to make a more concert characteristic sound. The Cadets, on the other hand (Madison, too), are holding on to their traditional sounds more than the other groups are. Crown and Cavaliers in the last 10 years have changed, vastly, how we listen and appreciate hornlines. There are merits to both formulas.

Don't confuse my trolling, flaming, allegiance stomping, dark humor, and general delinquency to mean that I'm just making crap up. There is a vast difference. DCP is my outlet for fun, but in real life I'm normal, educated, and not a troll/flamer/etc.

[JerseyDCyanks]

I Only went to the East Rutherford show.. but there was no doubt for me the loudest corps of the night was Phantom.

[bmjfelts1988]

Still attacking my credibility, witnessed by hundreds, while not providing your data from the recording/editors that you talked about before you mysteriously edited them away?

Also, getting different numbers from different venues, different spots in the facilities, different equipment, and different times of the season hardly discredits my data. That's called variation.

And yes, Cadets and Madison DO force their sounds. You take it in the butt hurt way, but you shouldn't. Like I said, and have said all along, these corps have a proprietary sound. Thats GOOD not bad. I LIKE that they don't sound like everyone else. I also said that they sound louder to me personally. The Cadets sound different, broad, forced. Their instrumentation isn't vastly different than anyone elses, that's just the way they sound. If you can't hear that, then I wonder what you hear when you listen to hornlines. That's the Cadets sound. As long as they do it consistently from player to player, I don't see an issue.

I do give the Cadets a hard time, but they are my favorite corps outside of my alma maters. I support Cadets members, support the Cadets monetarily, and enjoy listening to the Cadets. I also see no issues with the way they educate their members, or how they produce their sounds---I just think the recent trend for many corps is to make a more concert characteristic sound. The Cadets, on the other hand (Madison, too), are holding on to their traditional sounds more than the other groups are. Crown and Cavaliers in the last 10 years have changed, vastly, how we listen and appreciate hornlines. There are merits to both formulas.

Don't confuse my trolling, flaming, allegiance stomping, dark humor, and general delinquency to mean that I'm just making crap up. There is a vast difference. DCP is my outlet for fun, but in real life I'm normal, educated, and not a troll/flamer/etc.

I never said I "HAD" the data. But whatever....

My reply to this is.......................................................................

Ok, Fair enough. I also submit that I missed the part about it being a different early season venue. I thought your readings were from Indy. All good. Lets move on.

Oh, and a green +1 for you for a very well written and fair response.

Edited April 19, 2012 by bmjfelts1988

[Noname]

Murfreesboro was the last show of the season I got to sit between the 40s and up close. Carolina Crown was definitely the loudest. Followed by Blue Devils, and then Cavaliers. Just the way I saw it. Phantom was loud too.