LogicCorps Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Someone in this thread (sorry I lost my spot and that post) implied or I inferred that more contras were added because Bb don't project as well as the G contras. I don't think that's the reason at all. The sole reason is that the allowable corps size increased. It went from 128 to 135. So the hornline size got a little larger and contra lines grew a bit. Then it went from 135 to 155. So the hornline got a decent size larger as did the contra line. Back in the old days, late 70's and the 80's, most fullsized hornlines were 64 to 66. Phantom had 70 horns before anyone else did. Corps size was 128. So that was 50% to 55% of the corps on brass. Nowadays it's 76 to 80 or 49% to 52%. Similar percentages: G or Bb didn't affect the percentage. Now a different argument: what drove the corps size larger? Most say it was 3 buses held 155 people. Conspiracy theorist would say Bb's aren't loud enough...we need 80 Bb's to sound as loud as a 64 man G line, so let's just increase the corps size! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Someone in this thread (sorry I lost my spot and that post) implied or I inferred that more contras were added because Bb don't project as well as the G contras. I don't think that's the reason at all. The sole reason is that the allowable corps size increased. It went from 128 to 135. So the hornline size got a little larger and contra lines grew a bit. Then it went from 135 to 155. So the hornline got a decent size larger as did the contra line. Back in the old days, late 70's and the 80's, most fullsized hornlines were 64 to 66. Phantom had 70 horns before anyone else did. Corps size was 128. So that was 50% to 55% of the corps on brass. Nowadays it's 76 to 80 or 49% to 52%. Similar percentages: G or Bb didn't affect the percentage. Now a different argument: what drove the corps size larger? Most say it was 3 buses held 155 people. Conspiracy theorist would say Bb's aren't loud enough...we need 80 Bb's to sound as loud as a 64 man G line, so let's just increase the corps size! You're the first person ever to disagree with "Contra in G projects better than Contra in Bb." All good. But then you go off the rails on *why* contra lines grew, implying those of us in this thread were arguing that they grew because people wanted bigger tuba lines, and thus bigger hornlines, and thus bigger drum corps! You're first on that, too, lol, for I don't even care why drum corps got bigger, and I'm pretty sure no one asked any brass staff. The ratio of horns to drum corps is meaningless in this discussion, unless the drumline is getting bigger too (which it isn't, unless you count the synth...I removed that from the previous discussion.) For the record, all I did was claim the following: 1) Contras in G project better outdoors than Contras in Bb (I thought this was universal truth, like E=Mc^2, but apparently not) 2) by extension and experience!: 64 G Bugles projected better than 64 B-flats. 3) only now are we forgetting about G Bugles because hornlines went to 80, and increased the Tuba% slightly. (I never claimed drum corps got bigger to accommodate this, only that I observed the equivalency, and it made sense.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOOKEDBYLEGEND78 Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 You're the first person ever to disagree with "Contra in G projects better than Contra in Bb." All good. But then you go off the rails on *why* contra lines grew, implying those of us in this thread were arguing that they grew because people wanted bigger tuba lines, and thus bigger hornlines, and thus bigger drum corps! You're first on that, too, lol, for I don't even care why drum corps got bigger, and I'm pretty sure no one asked any brass staff. The ratio of horns to drum corps is meaningless in this discussion, unless the drumline is getting bigger too (which it isn't, unless you count the synth...I removed that from the previous discussion.) For the record, all I did was claim the following: 1) Contras in G project better outdoors than Contras in Bb (I thought this was universal truth, like E=Mc^2, but apparently not) 2) by extension and experience!: 64 G Bugles projected better than 64 B-flats. 3) only now are we forgetting about G Bugles because hornlines went to 80, and increased the Tuba% slightly. (I never claimed drum corps got bigger to accommodate this, only that I observed the equivalency, and it made sense.) Yes, most definitely yes to #1 and #2. I am not forgetting about G bugles, though. Remember when G bugles went 3-valve (around 1990), and we were told something to the effect that tuning issues would now go away and these would now be "legitimate" instruments - outdoor projection instruments with tuning qualities similar to traditional symphonic brass instruments? In addition, we were told arrangers would no longer have to write around the missing 3rd valve. There is (has to be / should be) some way to have either "in-tune" G-bugles OR Bb's with G-like outdoor projection. There are too many brilliant minds and great technology to not make this happen. Some King Bb's have come closest (IMO) to having G bugle projection/sound qualities - closer, but not quite. Some manufacturer (Jupiter, Yamaha, King, etc.) is going to make a lot of people (fans) extremely happy when they bring the best of both worlds together. Here's looking forward to that, and hoping that it is sooner and not later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Yes, most definitely yes to #1 and #2. I am not forgetting about G bugles, though. Remember when G bugles went 3-valve (around 1990), and we were told something to the effect that tuning issues would now go away and these would now be "legitimate" instruments - outdoor projection instruments with tuning qualities similar to traditional symphonic brass instruments? In addition, we were told arrangers would no longer have to write around the missing 3rd valve. There is (has to be / should be) some way to have either "in-tune" G-bugles OR Bb's with G-like outdoor projection. There are too many brilliant minds and great technology to not make this happen. Some King Bb's have come closest (IMO) to having G bugle projection/sound qualities - closer, but not quite. Some manufacturer (Jupiter, Yamaha, King, etc.) is going to make a lot of people (fans) extremely happy when they bring the best of both worlds together. Here's looking forward to that, and hoping that it is sooner and not later. Yeah, I hear ya. The brilliant minds are out there, but their ideas don't mesh with financial realities. For now, the only way to make a B-flat hornline project as well as G hornline is to add more horns, and make sure most of them are in the fat colors (tubas/euphs). Oh, and then you have to have the right mouthpieces, the right instruction (desire), and the right writing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zsharma Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Cascades are marching 10 tubas this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corps8294 Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Does that mean that BDs low end is synth enhanced or does it mean that they're just all that? With the drill that BD typically produces, I don't think their contras will have to worry about huffin' and puffin' too much. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREENBLUE Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 recent facebook pic....Cavies have 17. or possibly 16 with 1 alternate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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