GUARDLING Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I like the idea of getting some folks who produce live shows to work as effect judges. Las Vegas live show producers are a good example. They know how to entertain a live audience on a nightly basis. if people hate props, electronics, costumes etc etc now.....do this and their heads will explode.....lmao 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 if people hate props, electronics, costumes etc etc now.....do this and their heads will explode.....lmao Well, it would be an interesting change from the group of music educators we have judging effect now, most of whom had only taught and rarely, if ever, done any real performing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) This works until the "pro" judge/s picks against the fan favorite. And then everybody will be calling for change again. After all, what is entertaining is completely opinion. One person loves Blue Devils' show and can't stand Carolina Crown's. The next person is the reverse. When you let a "non-expert" effect the results in this way heads will roll in every direction...especially when Phantom Regiment is involved! I 'm of the opinion that a guy or gal that has made themselves a professional career pleasing audiences and making great money for doing so in the field of the Performing Arts is very qualified as to their craft and what makes an audience move.... or not move. I have nothing against some of the High School ( or college ) teachers that judge in DCI today. They know music, drill, guard and so forth. They are well trained in the nuances of Drum Corps. That said, these Corps are, afterall, competing in the Performing Arts realm. It can be mutually beneficial for all parties concerned, ie Corps staff, performers, DCI and the Performing Artist themselves to be given an oppportunity to judge how a particular show resonated with audiences. I'm not suggesting we select Howard Stern, or some other nitwit like him. But there are several professionals in the Performing Arts field that would be a good fit for such a responsibility. We don't give this person a lot of points on Finals Night, but enough ti make it relevant. Whats the WORST that could happen ? That a Corps that moved the audience the most in the performance might get a few tenths extra and might.... gulp.... actually win ? Oh the horror with THAT, huh ? Geez, with that scenario if we're not careful we could actually grow an audience base. Thats almost too much change and excitement for some of us to take, I can just imagine. I'm not sure we're ready for THAT. Edited July 22, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) Well, it would be an interesting change from the group of music educators we have judging effect now, most of whom had only taught and rarely, if ever, done any real performing. this is true and would be great to see some of those WGI fossels gone..( and dont mean age mean the ones who made themselves relevant).... many never did much either..lol...BUT I mean the audiance , many here who want to see sunbursts,company fronts, guards matching the corps..they will have a stroke for sure..lol Edited July 22, 2012 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I 'm of the opinion that a guy or gal that has made themselves a professional career pleasing audiences and making great money for doing so in the field of the Performing Arts is very qualified as to their craft and what makes an audience move.... or not move. I have nothing against some of the High School ( or college ) teachers that judge in DCI today. They know music, drill, Guard and so forth. They are well trained in the nuances of Drum Corps. Tahat said, these Corps are competing in the Performing Arts realm. It can be mutually beneficial for all parties concerned, ie Corps staff, performers, DCI and the Performing Artist themselves to be given an oppportunity to judge how a particula show resonated with audiences. I'm not suggesting we select Howard Stern, or some other nitwit like him. But there are several professionals in the Performing Arts field that would be a good fit for such a responsibility. We don't give this person a lot of points on Finals Night, but enough ti make it relevant. Whats the WORST tghat could happen ? That a Corps that moved the audience the most in the performance might get a few tenths extra and might.... gulp.... actually win ? Oh the horror with THAT, huh ? Geez, with that scenario if we're not careful we could actually grow an audience base. Thats almost too much change and excitement for some of us to take. I'm not sure we're ready for THAT. you will still have a subjective opinion of WHAT or WHO moved and audiance...........pros may also read silence or leaving someone to THINK as the ultimate...then what?,,,give them guidelines to fit what some want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) you will still have a subjective opinion of WHAT or WHO moved and audiance...........pros may also read silence or leaving someone to THINK as the ultimate...then what?,,,give them guidelines to fit what some want? High School teachers that judge DCI Corps today are also doing " subjective " observations and evaluations. Yes, it is with a well trained eye and ear, but there is no uniformity of judgement even within the Drum Corps judging ranks on the current judging sheets used and on how judges think on performances. Its already a highly subjective enterprise... as judges are being asked to compare and contrast completely dissimilar things. None of these Corps shows are identical in virtually anyhing at all. So its all " subjective ". Thus adding in a successful professional in the Performing Arts who is paid based upon how well he or she moves an audience, is not a bad " judge " of audience appeal, imo. Remember, in my scenario, the DCI judges will have 98-99% of the scoring points available to them. This affords them plenty of opportunity to reward the most esoteric, most unconventional, show out there if they want. The Performing Artist might even mirror the observations of the judges we already are utilizing.... who knows. And if they don't, so what ? How many DCI judges have put together a show for a commercial audience and have had to live or die professionally... and most importantly, income wise.... by what that audience thinks of the performance ? I think it would be an invaluable asset for all concerned to have the intuitive talents of a Career Professional in the Performing Arts right alongside the other DCI judges on Finals Night. And if people disagree with this and want no changes to " evolve " in how we judge shows, thats cool too. We can keep things exactly as the have been for pretty much years and years too. I just find it ironic that some people tell us they are for change, but when it comes to big transformations in how we judge Drum Corps shows, they pretty much like it just the way its been since the elimination of the Tic System decades ago. Edited July 22, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 High School teachers that judge DCI Corps today are also doing " subjective " observations and evaluations. Yes, it is with a well trained eye and ear, but there is no uniformity of judgement even within the Drum Corps judging ranks on the current judging sheets used and on how judges think on performances. Its already a highly subjective enterprise... as judges are being asked to compare and contrast completely dissimilar things. None of these Corps shows are identical in virtually anyhing at all. So its all " subjective ". Thus adding in a successful professional in the Performing Arts who is paid based upon how well he or she moves an audience, is not a bad " judge " of audience appeal, imo. Remember, in my scenario, the DCI judges will have 98-99% of the scoring points available to them. This affords them plenty of opportunity to reward the most esoteric, most unconventional, show out there if they want. The Performing Artist might even mirror the observations of the judges we already are utilizing.... who knows. And if they don't, so what ? How many DCI judges have put together a show for a commercial audience and have had to live or die professionally... and most importantly, income wise.... by what that audience thinks of the performance ? I think it would be an invaluable asset for all concerned to have the intuitive talents of a Career Professional in the Performing Arts right alongside the other DCI judges on Finals Night. And if people disagree with this and want no changes to " evolve " in how we judge shows, thats cool too. We can keep things exactly as the have been for pretty much years and years too. I just find it ironic that some people tell us they are for change, but when it comes to big transformations in how we judge Drum Corps shows, they pretty much like it just the way its been since the elimination of the Tic System decades ago. thats exactly my point the screaming here would be insane.....change is NOT whats excepted by many...unless of course the change includes going back to something familiar to their own period of time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 some never have Really? So what makes them qualified to judge at the highest level of activity if they haven't gone through the same stuff as the rest of us? Did they all staff somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeybabay Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 How about this: Introduce it at one of the Tour of Champions events. The original intention of these was to expand the horizons of the activity and give fans a more 1:1 connection to the "super" corps. Maybe bring in a different panelist for each event from a different background; just to see how it adjusts the outcome. I think that was part of the concept to begin with - think outside the box and bring a new experience to the activity. Don't open it up to audience votes like many of the television shows. When the American Public gets involved, the credibility goes down the tubes and it becomes a popularity contest. But if an outside person came in, they would likely have no allegiances to any corps, so they would certainly look at it with fresh eyes. My thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schimmy Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I have been watching Drum Corps for the past 40 years. We have had an excellent array of judges, who "some" of them have been judging excellence for 20,25,30 years. They are experts in the field of excellence, marching band design. I am wondering if we should open the judging to the Entertainment Business. I notice people like: Sharon Osbourne, and others, evaluating TRUE ENTERTAINMENT. They are not evaluating, technique of step, quality of design of certain guard techniques, but TRUE ENTERTAINMENT. The winners that they usually pick, go on and make $$$, and become more popular to a bigger audience. I wonder if DRUM CORPS should ever try this route???? I AM SURE that the corps who have the strongest staffs, and know the tricks of the trade (inside and out) would be put more on a level that ALL DRUM CORPS could be competitive.... thoughts??? This idea is incredibly bad. 1. The talent shows winners are selected by the audience, not the judges. 2. The The judges are part of the entertainment. I could give the same or better quality critique than some of the people judging these acts but no one wants to hear from an old fat bald guy that they have never heard of before. 3. Drum corps judging is mostly objective and only somewhat subjective. If you have any doubt pick 10 people who have marched drum corps and are up to date on the activity and have them make their own top 12 list. The similarities will be very close to what the judges came up with. Having judges that have no idea what they are judging makes the judging purely subjective and you might as well put Madison in first with the Troopers in second. 4. If you don't like the judging apply to be a judge and fix the problem, if there is one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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