perc2100 Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Hey guys, I usually don't chime in on threads like this, but here goes... 1) Kids get hurt at rehearsals when they don't follow instructions and either stop early or go on in the drill, so many (if not all corps) have ways of getting the whole group to start and stop together and drill that into the members early and often. So, stopping the show might actually hurt more kids, then help. 2) I have seen some posts about 2010 on here, so I feel the need to respond. In 2010, when Ryan got hurt, there was tremendous speculation about his injury here on DCP as it happened. The experts insisted that Ryan was a girl, there was blood on his uniform, and other ugly descriptions etc etc. I ran to the sidelines immediately when it happened, Jim Coates was already there taking him off the field, the field percussion judge stopped and helped him, and one of our drivers got hurt trying to run across the turf, I looked down at Ryan and asked him how he was doing. We all knew he was hurt and bad, but not like it was described online. The worst of it was that people here on DCP were "experts" on the issue. Even printed his name here online, before we even notified his family in Spokane, WA. I was fighting it here online, because I did not want inaccuracies to be stated. Foolish me. I stayed with Ryan for 5 days. Crown paid for a hotel room for his best friend to stay behind to help him get home. We contacted his family, who are the nicest people on the face of the planet (his Mom still thanks me all the time for what we did to take care of him). We raised money for him. We flew him to DCI last year to be with his corps family... and we all cheered for him to make the corps, but after the number of surgeries that he had, it was not meant to be. We needed another DM for the summer... and there was no better person than Ryan for the job. Please let this play out. The PC administration is doing their best to care for their member, working with their family, and treating the student with great respect and care. We all do that. As a matter of fact, Crown (like many other corps) now travels with a certified athletic trainer. No, not the part-time type, but the kind that this is her major in college and she is highly trained. Heck. Even our doctors and professional nurses that come around are highly impressed by her. I am sure that PC is doing their best. And when students need to go to hospitals, they go. So, with that said... Please... Don't jump ugly on the situation. = ) Happy Murfreesboro and Atlanta Regional weekend. If you are watching online or at the show and see or hear something that moves you... GET UP AND LET THESE KIDS KNOW IT! Stand.. Cheer.. Throw the proverbial babies! That's the difference between drum corps and... well, just about anything else. (going back to my lurking... have fun) I appreciate you coming out of lurker mode to enlighten us with actual fact & insight. It really is (apparently) easy to jump the gun from the cheap seats & couches; it's always great to hear from people who, you know, actually have the experience and know what they're talking about. Thank you!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarnia sam Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Well, to be fair, your drill wan't quite at the same degree of difficulty as the drill today. If a corps came out and did 70s style drill, they would be completely slaughtered by the judges. The incident in Whitewater was in '84 with the Cadets. As a recent marching member, as much respect as I have for the people that marched in the 70s, I will much rather take the current style of drill and the years I marched over high mark time for 12 minutes. Maybe I wasn't clear enough then. If so many kids are going to get injured, and leg injuries stay with you for life (personal experience), then it's time for a reality check. It's not football, rugby, or full contact ballet; this is drum corps and kids aren't supposed to get injured in this manner. They are getting injured because of what they are being asked to do. Regards, John Edited July 28, 2012 by sarnia sam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fsubone Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Maybe I wasn't clear enough then. If so many kids are going to get injured, and leg injuries stay with you for life (personal experience), then it's time for a reality check. It's not football, rugby, or full contact ballet; this is drum corps and kids aren't supposed to get injured in this manner. They are getting injured becasue of what they are being asked to do. Regards, John Understandable, but we are looking at small percentages. If 1 kid gets hurt out of a group of 150, that's only .667% of the entire corps. That's really a small number. The vast majority of kids are marching and handling it fine, without injuries. Some people are pre-determind to be susceptible to injury, and that can cause issues for them. But not everyone is likely to get hurt, or will marching modern drill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I think the bigger issue is about the drill itself. It seems that there are too many instances of players going down, starting in Whitewater in 83, 0r 84 (forget which year and I was standing in the endzone when it happened). In my entire marching career of ten years in the 70s I don't recall a single instance of anyone ever going down during a show. Cool drill moves, blind backing into sets, abrupt change of direction are fine, but someone needs to give a little more thought about what they are asking the marching members to do, and in the case of tuba players and drummers what they are doing it with. Consideraton should also be given for the surface, they aren't all the same and respond differently to people marching on them. I'm not saying death defying moves should go, but find better ways to do it. Doing drum corps is supposed to be hard work for fun, not a life changing activity due to serious inury. I hope the kid from PC is OK. Regards, John a) The 1984 Cadets incident in Whitewater had nothing to do with the drill; if memory serves a watering sprinkler head, or something like that, was accidentally left on the field which caused the initial trip and then the subsequent domino effect. b) In all youth activities which require any form of physical action (even playing on a sliding board at the park) the youth receive sprained ankles, skinned knees, broken fingers, chipped teeth, etc... it is just part of being active. c) The number of total performers in DCI who have received debilitating injuries pales in comparison to any other equal type of athletic/physical competitive activity. So, there is no real problem even with modern drill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterA Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Great to hear the kid is going to be ok. Now, on to a few points I did not see mentioned here already. Yes, it would be nice if there were an injury if we could just stop the show, remove an injured member, and restart the show, with no penalties. However, what a lot of people don't seem to understand, is first off, how do you stop the show. Someone suggested blowing a whistle, but honestly, how many kids are going to hear that whistle on the field. When you are performing your show, especially at some of the louder volumes, do you really think these kids are going to hear a whistle. One year at one of our high school marching competitions, one of the bands had a very interesting entry onto the field, that led right into their opening number. So when the stadium announcer told them they could enter the field for warmups, they marched onto the field and immediately went into their show. Well, obviously the judges weren't ready yet, and so the announcer told them to stop. Well of course the kids heard the announcer, but couldn't understand what he was saying, as they were playing, and it probably took close to 25-30 seconds before everyone stopped and then went back to the sidelines to wait. But stopping a show, isn't just as easy as blowing a whistle, or announcing over the loudspeaker, once those kids are in "performance" mode. And for anyone blaming staff for this taking so long to get them off of the field, please remember, a lot of staff memeber go up into the stands, making it difficult to get onto the field. And some member are right along the front sidelines, but are sometimes unable to monitor 150 kids at the same time. And you really can't see the entire field either, so you could have a member down, and still not see them until the end of the performance, depending on your angle. I definitely think a judge should at least ask the performer if they are ok, in that situation. As far as the lightning thing, I seem to remember a few years ago, there was a show in Illinois that got a lightning strike with loud thunder, and the announcer called the show in the middle of their performance. It did take about 30 seconds for those kids to all stop. Once again showing that even an announcer can have a hard time getting these kids out of "the zone" It would be great to have more situations and resolutions prepared in advance for emergency situations, but no matter how many situations you prepare for, there is always something else that will come up that will still be unprepared for. And lastly, for someone asking, how would the member feel if the show was stopped for them. First of all, they should feel great, that the corps respects and cares for their members enough to stop the show. And the staff should always make kids aware at the beginning of the season, that no one should ever blame an injured member for any restarts, or problems during the course of the show. We teach our kids in band that we go onto the field as a team. If we don't win a competition, and there were any problems within a certain section of the band, we still performed as a team, and we got 2nd as a team. If a soloist has a bad night, or a colorguard member drops her flag a few times, we are still a team. I remember one year on staff with a smaller corps, each of the sections seemed to blame other sections for problems during the show. This attitude always frustrated me. Our hearts go out to members of corps that have had problems, like Crown 10, Magic 02, and PC this week. But hopefully they feel the love and support, from members of their corps, other corps, family, and fans of all drum corps. Like it or not we are family. The support of all of us, should hopefully let these members know, we have all fallen at one time or another, and together we will help lift you back up. We hope to see this young man back in action, hopefully tomorrow. Edited July 28, 2012 by MisterA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbaManiac Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Maybe I wasn't clear enough then. If so many kids are going to get injured, and leg injuries stay with you for life (personal experience), then it's time for a reality check. It's not football, rugby, or full contact ballet; this is drum corps and kids aren't supposed to get injured in this manner. They are getting injured because of what they are being asked to do. Regards, John The members WANT to do this. They join these elite organizations because they want to be the best, and do things that no other people can do. They come into these programs knowing that they are going to be asking a lot of themselves physically, and will be taking risks. This is the same as joining a college sport, where there is always the risk of blowing out a knee, or breaking a bone. The members sign on in full knowledge of the risks, and the corps have trained professionals supervising. Athletic trainers and medical personnel are overseeing, and the members are taught how to do these things safely. You wouldn't go to an olympic gymnast and say "you can't do that trick, you might get hurt." It's an assumable risk that comes with wanting the pride of being the BEST at what you do. Again I bet if you asked the member in question, they would tell you that they wanted the show to go on, and had no regrets. That's Drum Corps. Edited July 28, 2012 by MarimbaManiac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarnia sam Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) a) The 1984 Cadets incident in Whitewater had nothing to do with the drill; if memory serves a watering sprinkler head, or something like that, was accidentally left on the field which caused the initial trip and then the subsequent domino effect. b) In all youth activities which require any form of physical action (even playing on a sliding board at the park) the youth receive sprained ankles, skinned knees, broken fingers, chipped teeth, etc... it is just part of being active. c) The number of total performers in DCI who have received debilitating injuries pales in comparison to any other equal type of athletic/physical competitive activity. So, there is no real problem even with modern drill. a- They were flying at a low altitude backwards. b - So it's OK? Ever had a seriously sprained ankle? How about a minor dislocation? How about blown knees? I can tell you after 21 years I feel my inuries every single day. c- How many is too many? More clarity I obviously didn't make first time around, there are ways to do things in a safer manner and I'm suggesting that drill designers and instructors need to bone up on finding them. Training needs to be improved on how to march (then people can stop griping about poor indivdual marching technique) and insisted upon. Going higher, faster, further doesn't imply - any way you can. Regards, John Edited July 28, 2012 by sarnia sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 (edited) Tough call... But even a couple years ago a kid from Crown snapped his leg in half and they still finished the show. The way the programs are designed running the same program AGAIN once it's stopped could actually cause more injuries! people should just be more aware of injured members and be quick to take them off the field. The show must go on! In all fairness to Crown, the incident happened towards the extreme end of the show, during the company front that magically came together after dissolving earlier. The horns and drums were then in front of him and out of the way, allowing people (including the bus driver that got injured himself) to run out on the field to take care of the marcher. Everyone seemed to respond in a responsible manner and I'm betting the marcher's grit got him as far as he got...to the point where he just couldn't go any further. Here's the blog snippet from DCI.org that evening. I still remember the horror of witnessing that. 9:24 Michael Boo: Oh my God. Some horn player just broke their leg. I mean, REALLY broke it. 9:25 Michael Boo: Pray for them. They've got to be in a lot of pain right now. 9:25 Michael Boo: How horrible. 9:25 Michael Boo: Medical personel are attending to them now. It happened going in to the big company front right before the end of the show. 9:27 Michael Boo: In retrospect, I don't know if they actually broke the leg, so I shouldn't have speculated as such, but the leg did bow out in an unnatural direction. 9:29 Michael Boo: Medical personnel are now putting a splint on the left leg. 9:30 Michael Boo: The audience is given the marcher a standing ovation as they're put on the gurney. That's what drum corps is all about. Edited July 28, 2012 by Michael Boo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbaManiac Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 More clarity I obviously didn't make first time around, there are ways to do things in a safer manner and I'm suggesting that drill designers and instructors need to bone up on finding them. Training needs to be improved on how to march (then people can stop griping about poor indivdual marching technique) and insisted upon. Going higher, faster, further doesn't imply - any way you can. Regards, John Ok really? There are hours upon hours of training given to these kids on how to move properly. In spring training all they do is learn how to move (and play) in the proper way, and condition their bodies so they can execute it correctly. If you really think there isn't training going on, you are very mistaken. I don't think there is one designer or instructor who thinks "I don't care HOW they do it, as long as they do it." These people are very good at what they do, and know what information to give. When it comes down to it, things just happen. Members make mistakes, and they don't execute things properly. It happens, we learn, and move on. To attribute this to the staff failing to train the members just isn't reality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 a- They were flying at a low altitude backwards. So what; the flying at low altitude backwards did not cause the fall, the sprinkler head caused it. And everyone got up quickly to resume that low flying altitude. According to you a fall like that should have caused debilitating injuries to multiple performers; but, oh my stars, it didn't. b - So it's OK? Ever had a seriously sprained ankle? How about a minor dislocation? How about blown knees? I can tell you after 21 years I feel my inuries every single day. Throughout my years as a youth I broke my nose (twice), my ankle, my arm. had two of my teeth knocked out (baby teeth thankfully), two concussions, a rock tear open my skin leaving a scar, as well as many other injuries which I certainly do feel today as an aging adult. And to me that is not only OK, but I actually relish those aches and pains today because it proves that I lived my youth as an active child and not as a secluded recluse. c- How many is too many? No offense, but this is the second absurd question I have seen in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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