Allentown VOD's

[supersop]

So, what did everyone think. I've only watched a few of them so far and I've come to some conclusions about the broadcasts.

1. There isn't a strong sense of stereo in any of the recordings

2. The way they have the processing set up .. it feels like all levels are being normalized. Power hits just aren't as earth shattering as they are live ... not even the level 9 or 10 hits are coming across the way they do live. Plus most of the subtle dynamics being used by the corps are being whitewashed by the sound engineers. This doesn't just pertain to Allentown either.

3. The orange hue to the recordings is pretty accurate to the lighting at J. Birney Crum. All of my digital photos taken from my phone look the same as the recording.

On to the corps:

1. There is a ton more going on visually live than what comes across on the recordings. It's mostly the subtle things like Crown bouncing quickly on their toes before the block spin ........ it's really effective live and you can barely see it on the vid. BD .... yeah most of what they do is not effective on the video's. There's so much going on that catches the eye and is effective live that just isn't coming across. I can't say it's not coming across from up top .. because it is .. it's just something about the 2D situation with video streaming.

2. Seeing the corps in Allentown and then at Metlife ....... there's something about this stadium (terrain, no backdrop/stands, angle of stands on the concert side) that just makes the corps performances come off as dry and sterile. Almost every corps was anything BUT sterile.

3. I've been hyping BK all year ... first time seeing them live at Allentown and I have to say ...... their brass is below a top 12 quality. Using them as the example, along with my concerns about the recording process, something is being done to flatline all of the corps so you really can't tell who is playing with power .. who has proper support at lower dynamic levels ...who is blending well... etc. Visually .. BK is dynamite. But if I had to be honest ... they should be in 13th .... and that hurts me to say it.

4. I think Blue Stars are really getting shafted now. They have improved more than any other corps this year ... and by improve I mean they are now dynamic, powerful, much cleaner, a top 3 brass quality ... and now that they're cleaner the show doesn't look as crazy hard as it did earlier in the year. I would have them higher but to be honest ......... who can you put them ahead of?

5. Spirit of Atlanta could be the corps this year that gets whipped by the system. They are SO good, but they have visual elements that are dated and losing their charm over the course of the season. Again, this is a corps that is immensely improved over last year ... the quality is there .. but who do you put them ahead of?

6. SCV had the red moon rising behind them. It was pretty awesome and timely. This corps has cleaned so well .. and is making strides in every caption. I still don't think the judges have the guts to move them up and there's only one reason why ............ the brass don't go higher than level 8.5 in volume. I see this changing in the future with JD on board ... but it's not going to happen this season. They have a beautiful show .. the opener has gotten soooo strong and is now one of my favorite pieces to listen to. I just think that with more power .. Mars would come off alot better. It's just not ANGRY enough. Looking at them visually .. this is a top 2 show. They march better than Crown .. have much better carriage than Crown .... they know their style and perform it impeccably. Just a couple of ticks that really stick out need to be fixed and I still see them moving up to the 3 spot. They're so clean now that those ticks can be easily fixed in no time flat.

7. BD is awesome ... but they're wearing thin on me. I dig about 80% of the show ... I like what they've done with the duets on the mics ... it really adds a professional quality and depth to their sound. It will be very fun to listen to on the mp3 ... and I haven't said that in a VERY long time. I get the layering and adding of texture with the DADA voiceovers ...... I get it I get it I get it. It just bugs me that this is winning. I have nothing against the marching members of the corps. I just don't understand how the judging system can reward so much with this design. Corps like SCV who are more straight forward aren't getting the credit and are executing at just as high a level. I think this is a year where you can say with certainty that it isn't just EXECUTION that wins. There are several corps that are just as clean as BD ....2 or 3 that have a better design ... which makes me wonder why those 2 or 3 aren't ahead of them.

8. Phantom ... this is the corps that might see a fall on finals week. All I can say is .. the totalitarian design czar can squarely take this on his shoulders. The kids are amazing ... really performing the snot out of their show. I can listen to it .. I can watch it .. but the characterizations, staging of them and overall storyline is poorly done. I could say much more ... but I love this corps too much to make it sound like I dogging them. I'm not ... I just dislike the choices of the person in charge .... and fully understand why JD and the Rennicks split town.

9. My Cadets. Live, the show works very well. I think the show concept was a bad idea, but they've made the most of it with entirely new membership leadership in the corps. Visual execution is great, battery is great .. guard is pretty darn good ... brass .. well they push the buttons at the right time. Quality of sound ... not what I expect and haven't felt they've captured the Garfield sound since about 2002. Upper end is thin, shrill and naselly .. and has been for a while. Bari's could play with a ton more power ..... I just ....... ya.

Ok that depressing rant is over. I'm going to go back and enjoy more shows and post what I think later Maybe a few more reads of what I saw live will quell my temperament.

What are your thoughts heading into Prelims? How do you compare the video's to the live product?

[MikeN]

Thanks for the mini-review! I have to say, when I heard the ToC in Houston, SCV had no trouble with sound then - they were playing practically the entire show FF. I wonder if it's a function of the venue or recording?

Mike

[supersop]

Thanks for the mini-review! I have to say, when I heard the ToC in Houston, SCV had no trouble with sound then - they were playing practically the entire show FF. I wonder if it's a function of the venue or recording?

Mike

I dunnno .. it seems SCV has been doing that for years. It's an old school method. FF early season .. then refine as you go. Afterall, if kids can't play loud with quality and support, they can't play softly the same way. That said, I don't think the staff ever got the kids up to a full FF or higher ... when compared to BD, PR, Crown, Bloo and Cadets ... that level just isn't there. PR and BD go to 11 .. Crown has a 13 on their scale. None of that comes across in ANY of the recordings this season. Regardless of venue .. it's all the same.

Venue's do play a small part ... like Metlife the sound was amazing. It was a classic bowl .. great reverb adds to the fullness of the sound, but it was a completely enclosed bowl. Some of the sound needs to escape in order to get a cleaner listen. J. Birney Crum ... there's ZERO reverb ... no echo on releases whatsoever .. it's just dry dry dry. But even with the Allentown Vid ........ the levels are flattened and all corps sound like they have the same dynamic range, subtleties and nuance in their shows. That's so not true.

[SynthLine09]

Regarding these VOD recordings....I saw the setup at an earlier show in the season. Whoever DCI hired was simply using a sony handy cam video camera and using the onboard sound. Those things to not record professional audio, super compressed! They had no form of proper stereo recording setup at allentown. Probably just a video camera up top, which is why there is no sense of stereo on the recordings.

In todays digital age, I think there is really no excuse for the quality of some of the VOD videos on the fan network. Superb results can be had for pretty darn cheap. Like...$1500 cheap. Seems like DCI would have a proper archival system at these big shows

[skywhopper]

Gasp! A video recording at a venue with no AV facilities isn't as vibrant and detailed as seeing a show live??? Not every VOD among over a dozen has been given the DVD postproduction treatment or recorded with the best possible gear??? Scandalous!

Seriously guys, if you want to fund higher quality production for Allentown, I'm sure DCI would accept targeted donations towards the cause next year.

Edited August 9, 2012 by skywhopper

[supersop]

Gasp! A video recording at a venue with no AV facilities isn't as vibrant and detailed as seeing a show live??? Not every VOD among over a dozen has been given the DVD postproduction treatment or recorded with the best possible gear??? Scandalous!

Seriously guys, if you want to fund higher quality production for Allentown, I'm sure DCI would accept targeted donations towards the cause next year.

The point of the post isn't to dis the quality of the staff running the feed. It's to enlighten people that only have FN that what they are seeing and hearing isn't even close to the live experience. Secondly, they shouldn't form concrete opinions based on those viewings alone. The same can be said for the 70's, 80's and some of the 90's fn feeds .. as well as the dvd's from that era. They're just not comparable to the live performance.

With that, I suggest people get out and see more shows. With this being finals week, they only have a few more shots. But for next year .... get out there early and often. It really is necessary to see and hear the corps live in order to form an opinion that holds weight. That's the intention of my post. That is all....

[perc2100]

So, what did everyone think. I've only watched a few of them so far and I've come to some conclusions about the broadcasts.

1. There isn't a strong sense of stereo in any of the recordings

2. The way they have the processing set up .. it feels like all levels are being normalized. Power hits just aren't as earth shattering as they are live ... not even the level 9 or 10 hits are coming across the way they do live. Plus most of the subtle dynamics being used by the corps are being whitewashed by the sound engineers. This doesn't just pertain to Allentown either.

3. The orange hue to the recordings is pretty accurate to the lighting at J. Birney Crum. All of my digital photos taken from my phone look the same as the recording.

On to the corps:

1. There is a ton more going on visually live than what comes across on the recordings. It's mostly the subtle things like Crown bouncing quickly on their toes before the block spin ........ it's really effective live and you can barely see it on the vid. BD .... yeah most of what they do is not effective on the video's. There's so much going on that catches the eye and is effective live that just isn't coming across. I can't say it's not coming across from up top .. because it is .. it's just something about the 2D situation with video streaming.

2. Seeing the corps in Allentown and then at Metlife ....... there's something about this stadium (terrain, no backdrop/stands, angle of stands on the concert side) that just makes the corps performances come off as dry and sterile. Almost every corps was anything BUT sterile.

3. I've been hyping BK all year ... first time seeing them live at Allentown and I have to say ...... their brass is below a top 12 quality. Using them as the example, along with my concerns about the recording process, something is being done to flatline all of the corps so you really can't tell who is playing with power .. who has proper support at lower dynamic levels ...who is blending well... etc. Visually .. BK is dynamite. But if I had to be honest ... they should be in 13th .... and that hurts me to say it.

4. I think Blue Stars are really getting shafted now. They have improved more than any other corps this year ... and by improve I mean they are now dynamic, powerful, much cleaner, a top 3 brass quality ... and now that they're cleaner the show doesn't look as crazy hard as it did earlier in the year. I would have them higher but to be honest ......... who can you put them ahead of?

5. Spirit of Atlanta could be the corps this year that gets whipped by the system. They are SO good, but they have visual elements that are dated and losing their charm over the course of the season. Again, this is a corps that is immensely improved over last year ... the quality is there .. but who do you put them ahead of?

6. SCV had the red moon rising behind them. It was pretty awesome and timely. This corps has cleaned so well .. and is making strides in every caption. I still don't think the judges have the guts to move them up and there's only one reason why ............ the brass don't go higher than level 8.5 in volume. I see this changing in the future with JD on board ... but it's not going to happen this season. They have a beautiful show .. the opener has gotten soooo strong and is now one of my favorite pieces to listen to. I just think that with more power .. Mars would come off alot better. It's just not ANGRY enough. Looking at them visually .. this is a top 2 show. They march better than Crown .. have much better carriage than Crown .... they know their style and perform it impeccably. Just a couple of ticks that really stick out need to be fixed and I still see them moving up to the 3 spot. They're so clean now that those ticks can be easily fixed in no time flat.

7. BD is awesome ... but they're wearing thin on me. I dig about 80% of the show ... I like what they've done with the duets on the mics ... it really adds a professional quality and depth to their sound. It will be very fun to listen to on the mp3 ... and I haven't said that in a VERY long time. I get the layering and adding of texture with the DADA voiceovers ...... I get it I get it I get it. It just bugs me that this is winning. I have nothing against the marching members of the corps. I just don't understand how the judging system can reward so much with this design. Corps like SCV who are more straight forward aren't getting the credit and are executing at just as high a level. I think this is a year where you can say with certainty that it isn't just EXECUTION that wins. There are several corps that are just as clean as BD ....2 or 3 that have a better design ... which makes me wonder why those 2 or 3 aren't ahead of them.

8. Phantom ... this is the corps that might see a fall on finals week. All I can say is .. the totalitarian design czar can squarely take this on his shoulders. The kids are amazing ... really performing the snot out of their show. I can listen to it .. I can watch it .. but the characterizations, staging of them and overall storyline is poorly done. I could say much more ... but I love this corps too much to make it sound like I dogging them. I'm not ... I just dislike the choices of the person in charge .... and fully understand why JD and the Rennicks split town.

9. My Cadets. Live, the show works very well. I think the show concept was a bad idea, but they've made the most of it with entirely new membership leadership in the corps. Visual execution is great, battery is great .. guard is pretty darn good ... brass .. well they push the buttons at the right time. Quality of sound ... not what I expect and haven't felt they've captured the Garfield sound since about 2002. Upper end is thin, shrill and naselly .. and has been for a while. Bari's could play with a ton more power ..... I just ....... ya.

Ok that depressing rant is over. I'm going to go back and enjoy more shows and post what I think later Maybe a few more reads of what I saw live will quell my temperament.

What are your thoughts heading into Prelims? How do you compare the video's to the live product?

I haven't seen any of the corps live, but have seen them all several times via Fan Network. I really appreciate your critique of the VOD, comparing what corps sound/look like live vs how they sound/look on the stream. Obviously it's simple logic that says corps will not sound a 'big' on a computer as they do live, but when you say

there's something about this stadium (terrain, no backdrop/stands, angle of stands on the concert side) that just makes the corps performances come off as dry and sterile. Almost every corps was anything BUT sterile.

it really gives me an idea that some shows that seem flat online might be smoking to someone sitting in the stadium.

Thanks for helping to give a different perspective, and not just retreading show design opinions!!

[jasgre2000]

The point of the post isn't to dis the quality of the staff running the feed. It's to enlighten people that only have FN that what they are seeing and hearing isn't even close to the live experience. Secondly, they shouldn't form concrete opinions based on those viewings alone. The same can be said for the 70's, 80's and some of the 90's fn feeds .. as well as the dvd's from that era. They're just not comparable to the live performance.

With that, I suggest people get out and see more shows. With this being finals week, they only have a few more shots. But for next year .... get out there early and often. It really is necessary to see and hear the corps live in order to form an opinion that holds weight. That's the intention of my post. That is all....

I would love to see more live shows ... if only there were live shows to attend in the half of the country I live in.

[RockyGranite]

The point of the post isn't to dis the quality of the staff running the feed. It's to enlighten people that only have FN that what they are seeing and hearing isn't even close to the live experience. Secondly, they shouldn't form concrete opinions based on those viewings alone. The same can be said for the 70's, 80's and some of the 90's fn feeds .. as well as the dvd's from that era. They're just not comparable to the live performance.

With that, I suggest people get out and see more shows. With this being finals week, they only have a few more shots. But for next year .... get out there early and often. It really is necessary to see and hear the corps live in order to form an opinion that holds weight. That's the intention of my post. That is all....

Having seen FN shows and live shows this year, I agree. Live is MUCH better.

After DATR got rained on, I made an impulsive decision to drive from CO to TX for the S.A. show. I'm glad I did. I was able to fully experience Drum Corps.

Unfortunately, because of that decision, the rest of the season has all been FN...or nothing. And the theater tomorrow, of course. FN is better than nothing.

[SiBlueStar]

4. I think Blue Stars are really getting shafted now. They have improved more than any other corps this year ... and by improve I mean they are now dynamic, powerful, much cleaner, a top 3 brass quality ...

Honestly I wouldn't say top 3 quality... but they definitely have come far since the last I saw them and I would agree that they are being a bit "shafted" these days. Finals is full of surprises, though!

Edited August 9, 2012 by SiBlueStar