Subpar camera work during broadcasts...

[84BDsop]

Speaking of back in the early 80's...remember all those Drum Major crotch cam angles? LOL The cameraman would be directly below the drum major podium with the camera pointed straight up.

Or zoom shots into the bell of a horn (end of 83 Suncoast, for ex)

[Shadowtron]

I think they've done a great job focusing in on appropriate areas. These are not 24/7 band people who will study every show. For a live viewing they're doing very well.

[Tommeee]

I can see you and I aren't going to get into a bar room fight over this anytime soon. (I started a thread on the exact same subject)

You just put things better than I do.

After I started this thread, I saw your post. Sorry for stealing your thunder!

[Tommeee]

I agree with a lot of you wrote b/c I saw a lot of similar behavior in the theater broadcast. I will say, however, that you may not get much backing for your point 3, as in the past when this was tried there was A LOT of griping about missing the flow of the show and the corps drill b/c an inordinate amount of time is spent on the pit members. In general, I'd rather see drill, horn and drum line with the occasional pit member.

Yes, I would rather see drill, hornline, and drumline also. AND when the occasional pit member is shown, make it count.

I did see some video of the pit during the theater broadcast, but it wasn't always the best time to be showing it. Example: Devils are doing some phenomenal stuff in the pit this year, but the theater and Fan Network have ignored the best parts of it (especially during times when it is more visually exciting than what is happening behind them on the field). Those keyboards (especially on the right side) are being so expressive in their movements that I really feel people would enjoy seeing at least 5-10 seconds of it.

[Pete Freedman]

I find when I watch one of the old tapes I actually reminisce about the awful camera edits. "Oh yeah, I remember cringing at the long shot of that base drum while the corps members can be seen flying in the background", or "Oh, I remember yelling at the backs of some horn players". It's a weird feeling; it's like a rubber band in your soul starts to stretch when they go in close, and the longer they stay on the shot, or switch to another closeup, the more that rubber band stretches, and you wonder if it's going to snap.

Here's my suggestions to the director:

1. Do not be creative. The creative work has already been done by the people who made the show. Your only job is to convey that artistry to the audience.

2. Do not be fair to your camera crew. Their great shots should go mostly unused here. Yes, composing artistic shots is such an important skill for camera people, but save those great shots for promos and other drum corps work. They should go mostly unused during the show recording/broadcast itself. Make sure the crew is aware of this.

3. Divide each show into three kinds of periods; A: The corps is standing still, B. The corps is moving slowly, and C. The corps is moving fast. Then follow these guidelines:

A. Still: Once the corps has stopped moving, you have some freedom to do various closeups (even get a little artsy), but be back on the pressbox angle just BEFORE the corps begins to move again. Know when this is beforehand.

B. Slow movement: You can only be away from the pressbox for three seconds at a time. Five seconds is pushing it. Never cut from closeup to closeup; always go right back to the pressbox angle. Closeups are just to give a taste of detail, not to showcase anything or be creative.

C. Fast movement: Stay on the pressbox angle during any rapid movement. This is really, really, really, really important.

4. If you get complaints from drum lines or color guards that their features should be zoomed in on, remind them that the audience in the stands can't zoom in either. Their work, even their fancy features, are meant to be viewed in the context of the entire show. In the same way we don't zoom in on Jerry McGuire's mouth when he says "You complete me," we don't zoom into the drums during the drum solo. To do so would interfere with the show.

On a side note. DCI should consider releasing a third format (besides multi-angle and pressbox) that is only the non-pressbox multi-angle shots, along with an app/web interface of some kind that allows the viewer to play two streams; the pressbox angle and the non-pressbox multi-angle on two monitors side by side. (Don't have two monitors? Don't worry; you'll buy a second one for this!) Best of both worlds. How awesome would that be?

[xmensop]

I may be the minority here, but I've always preferred DVDs/live feeds to be mostly from the perspective of the judges/audience. Give me the high cam over any of those artsy angles any day. Besides, isn't that how shows are designed? Directed at a target audience? The occasional close-up or feature is fine but I want to see the big picture ALL the time.

Dunno.

[adamversus]

I find when I watch one of the old tapes I actually reminisce about the awful camera edits. "Oh yeah, I remember cringing at the long shot of that base drum while the corps members can be seen flying in the background", or "Oh, I remember yelling at the backs of some horn players". It's a weird feeling; it's like a rubber band in your soul starts to stretch when they go in close, and the longer they stay on the shot, or switch to another closeup, the more that rubber band stretches, and you wonder if it's going to snap.

Here's my suggestions to the director:

1. Do not be creative. The creative work has already been done by the people who made the show. Your only job is to convey that artistry to the audience.

2. Do not be fair to your camera crew. Their great shots should go mostly unused here. Yes, composing artistic shots is such an important skill for camera people, but save those great shots for promos and other drum corps work. They should go mostly unused during the show recording/broadcast itself. Make sure the crew is aware of this.

3. Divide each show into three kinds of periods; A: The corps is standing still, B. The corps is moving slowly, and C. The corps is moving fast. Then follow these guidelines:

A. Still: Once the corps has stopped moving, you have some freedom to do various closeups (even get a little artsy), but be back on the pressbox angle just BEFORE the corps begins to move again. Know when this is beforehand.

B. Slow movement: You can only be away from the pressbox for three seconds at a time. Five seconds is pushing it. Never cut from closeup to closeup; always go right back to the pressbox angle. Closeups are just to give a taste of detail, not to showcase anything or be creative.

C. Fast movement: Stay on the pressbox angle during any rapid movement. This is really, really, really, really important.

4. If you get complaints from drum lines or color guards that their features should be zoomed in on, remind them that the audience in the stands can't zoom in either. Their work, even their fancy features, are meant to be viewed in the context of the entire show. In the same way we don't zoom in on Jerry McGuire's mouth when he says "You complete me," we don't zoom into the drums during the drum solo. To do so would interfere with the show.

On a side note. DCI should consider releasing a third format (besides multi-angle and pressbox) that is only the non-pressbox multi-angle shots, along with an app/web interface of some kind that allows the viewer to play two streams; the pressbox angle and the non-pressbox multi-angle on two monitors side by side. (Don't have two monitors? Don't worry; you'll buy a second one for this!) Best of both worlds. How awesome would that be?

Ok, forgive me for being harsh here Pete, but have you ever produced, participated in, or created a major broadcast for television? (and I'm not talking about the high school band show that ran on local access cable at 3 in the morning...) Do you know the limitations of a 30 foot jib outfitted with a Sony vs. one outfitted with a JVC HD cam of similar spec? Do you know the difference between Prime Lenses and Prime Time? If you don't then DON'T PLAY DIRECTOR. YOU DON'T HAVE CLUE ONE WHAT IT TAKES TO PUT ON A PRODUCTION.

While viewers such as yourself have a right to express dissatisfaction with any element of a broadcast, it's another thing to start playing "Director" when you haven't clue one what actually goes into creating a show of this magnitude.

First, as I've posted before there were definite moments that weren't great in the current production - but for the love of all things holy will you understand that Tom Blair actually knows what he's doing! (For the record I don't know Tom personally, and I'm not being paid to defend the man and his company - but from a professional perspective I'm impressed).

Second, the viewing environment has significantly effected production capabilities because it has reduced production budgets. DCI shows are now in theaters because the viewership is frankly too gosh darn small to attract an audience for any network air. The days of PBS are over. Why? Because PBS is not putting any production funds into programming - and still will demand a percentage of ownership rights if it airs on the network. What that means is in order to get on PBS, DCI would have to self-fund the production, work alongside some folks at PBS who'd force their own input into the production, AND give away a percent of any revenue. That's not a business model that works for anyone. (It's also why PBS stations in key markets such as Los Angeles' KCET have pulled out of the system). The bottom line is there's less money to spend on production because it's being made available for in-theater viewership. (BTW DCI was bragging on its website of attracting 40,000 people in theaters for the Pay per View. Do you realize if a television show only attracted 40,000 viewers - even in Peoria it wouldn't last a minute - much less get on the air?)

The financial environment means that Tom is significantly constrained in terms of what he can do with the production. "Roll-ins" (the stuff that airs prior to, or after a performance consists of re-edits of old footage, inexpensive "After FX" visual graphics, or live cut-ins of sideline reporters. It also means that cut-backs have been taken with crew - who are less experienced/expensive on a day-rate basis, and have less days of production/pre-production to work with. Bottom line: Be thankful that they've managed to get anything out because Tom's paying out at least $40,000 a day for gear and labor, not counting the satellite uplink fees that have to bounce from a T1 line in Indy to Denver (where Fathom's network operations center is), out to your theater. Considering that at best the telecast took in $200,000 (after Fathom event's cut, and the theater exhibitor fees are paid) and the guy has very little money to work with.

I've taken the time to write all this not in an attempt to impress you with knowledge - but to educate you and other posters. To the point that you'll all stop #####ing and whining about this not being there, that not being good enough.

If you want to do something to help the viewing, set up some sort of fund to pay the productions costs. Or, if you're really that dissatisfied just stay away and don't watch. But for everyone's sake can you just

enjoy the majority of what's right with the broadcast? Can you give a little bit of love to Tom Blair for even agreeing to do this when he's making hardly anything (maybe getting a % of back-end DVD)?

Look I'll never tell you how to sell insurance, be an accountant, medical researcher, teach, or whatever it is that you for a living - so please stop thinking that you understand what it is that we in the television business do.

[jkingqm]

... Do you know the difference between Prime Lenses and Prime Time? If you don't then DON'T PLAY DIRECTOR. YOU DON'T HAVE CLUE ONE WHAT IT TAKES TO PUT ON A PRODUCTION.... - so please stop thinking that you understand what it is that we in the television business do.

The argument "If you can't do better then don't criticize" is not valid. I don't know anything about creating special effects in blockbuster movies, but if I see a movie with crappy special effects then any suggestions I may write in a review are appropriate. I am not, by the way, saying the current productions have been crappy. I think they have been great. There are always ways to improve any effort. I'm sure even the director would admit that. There have been some good ideas on this thread already.

I have lots of the PBS/ESPN shows taped on video. I only have one DCI year DVD (1993) and the two DCI Countdown DVDs. Some things I don't like are:

1) seeing a close up of an big rifle toss and then someone drops it. For a finished product (not the live show), maybe a wider shot could be shown instead. I don't know. If you didn't show it all then you would have people complaining that the "big" rifle toss was ignored. I'm amazed at how many times this happens on the 1993 dvd. I always cringe and feel so sorry for the CG person.

2) the camera cutting to the pit immediately AFTER a big a mallet riff. So instead of seeing the pit player playing you see them standing there putting their mallets away, sometimes even turning away.

3) the camera showing a close up of a drum feature while a VERY cool drill with marching & CG is going on. I would rather see a close up of the percussion when there is isn't a killer effect taking place.

Some things I like are:

1) a variety of close-ups, high shots, and in-between. Effects just as zooming can be enhancing if for example, there is a very slow section with little movement, and the camera slowly zooms up on a soloist.

2) I really liked the commentary during the PBS shows, and I like it during the theater broadcast. I would love to hear it during the FN broadcasts. I know, $.

-

[Turtle Wax]

Tom Blair and crew do exceptional work. Let's all thank the heavens that we're not forced to watch full minute cuts of the kid preparing to play the suspended cymbal in the front ensemble while a genius Zingali drill move is happening behind him...like we had to in the 1980s.

I know that Blair does his homework to prepare for the broadcast all summer long...scoping out the important or "cool" moments so they are right there for us when the time comes. And yes...there are, at times, "creative" camera shots to make a special moment appear far more aesthetically pleasing that it would otherwise be watching it from a static position.

If the camera work is bothersome, we can always buy the DVD and watch the high cam.

[wvu80]

Ok, forgive me for being harsh here Pete, but have you ever produced, participated in, or created a major broadcast for television?

(respectful snip)

I've taken the time to write all this not in an attempt to impress you with knowledge - but to educate you and other posters. To the point that you'll all stop #####ing and whining about this not being there, that not being good enough.

If you want to do something to help the viewing, set up some sort of fund to pay the productions costs. Or, if you're really that dissatisfied just stay away and don't watch. But for everyone's sake can you just

enjoy the majority of what's right with the broadcast? Can you give a little bit of love to Tom Blair for even agreeing to do this when he's making hardly anything (maybe getting a % of back-end DVD)?

Look I'll never tell you how to sell insurance, be an accountant, medical researcher, teach, or whatever it is that you for a living - so please stop thinking that you understand what it is that we in the television business do.

Thank you for that detailed and thoughtful post. But I have to tell you, I thought the original post you responded to was pretty good. By that I mean I thought those were pretty good suggestions.

Your post by comparison, is almost like the DCI show designers telling the audience that they are showing their ignorance because they don't like the drill. I don't mean to be critical of you as a professional, because you obviously know what you are talking about. But still, I had the same criticisms of the production when I saw it, and because it is drum corps, I have definite opinions about what I like.

When it is a "modern" TV show that does all the hyperactive screen shots, I simply vote with my remote control and find something else less annoying. I just don't have that option with drum corps.

To sum my "producer" opinion, I also say, less is more when it comes to changing camera shots of drum corps shows.

Edited August 22, 2012 by wvu80