BRASSO Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) To be fair, it's been said (I've heard stories from some of the Star designers & staffers) that Star 1993 was almost a direct 'answer' to the perceived crowd resentment from 1992's show. Star designers thought in 1992 they were programming a show that would have obvious mass appeal, and were expecting drum corps fans to appreciate not only the artistry and technical aspects of the show, but also the general patriotic theme. But when the fans seemed to turn on them, . The star of Indiana got terrific audience responses the 4 times I saw them in 1992, so I have no idea what you are talking about with this comment. One can go to FN at any time, play 92 Star, and tell us if you hear a " fan base that turns on Star ". The 92 Star of Indiana "turned on" the crowd at the shows I was at, not " turned off " the crowd. Edited August 17, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWEST Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 To be fair, it's been said (I've heard stories from some of the Star designers & staffers) that Star 1993 was almost a direct 'answer' to the perceived crowd resentment from 1992's show. Star designers thought in 1992 they were programming a show that would have obvious mass appeal, and were expecting drum corps fans to appreciate not only the artistry and technical aspects of the show, but also the general patriotic theme. But when the fans seemed to turn on them, designers were a bit confused, and decided to design 1993 with a darker, more stark show that would completely take fan reaction out of the equation and put the corps' success in the hands of the performers (that probably wasn't explained as well as it could've been, but I'm at Day 4 of band camp, in hour #9ish, so I'm not thinking super clearly). Great post. There was so much patriotism at that time (92) that one would think that the staff would design the show outside the box. They did not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NakedEye Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 The star of Indiana got terrific audience responses the 4 times I saw them in 1992, so I have no idea what you are talking about with this comment. One can go to FN at any time, play 92 Star, and tell us if you hear a " fan base that turns on Star ". The 92 Star of Indiana "turned on" the crowd at the shows I was at, not " turned off " the crowd. I remember a lot of booing when they won the Quarterfinals, and then louder cheering each of the next two nights when they slipped to 2nd and then 3rd. This was the sort of thing that I believe Mason refers to when planning 1993. A segment of the fan base absolutely refused to cut them any slack, no matter what they did or how good they were. That was stupid and unfortunate at the time, but the flip side is it made them produce '93. What a loss it would be if that had never come to pass. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 This seems obvious: like Star was frantically throwing more scrims, props, whatever at the show without much benefit. I agree that this was a great musical book, and I appreciate the intent (now: I really didn't like this show live in 1992). I personally am not a fan of patriotic type shows, as I feel they're largely cheezy, come across to me as a bit disingenuous (especially in an uber competitive environment like DCI), and almost always feel flat. I think Cadets 1995 of getting the 'patriotic' feel across without being too cheezy, but few shows like Star 92 do it for me. Again, I really like the musical arrangements, and in hindsight it's interesting to hear the stories of why they went in that direction. Although we lost Star at the end of '93 ( they had decided to leave DCI before the 93 season) it did lead to the Award Winning international hit " BLAST " where Star took Drum Corps to the theatre stage utilizing " Medea " but also some of the " best musical and visual hits " they culled from various Drum Corps along with their own hits from earlier years. That was a fantastic show ( still showing too )that took Drum Corps to a whole new audience and a whole new level of creativity and programming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) I remember a lot of booing when they won the Quarterfinals, and then louder cheering each of the next two nights when they slipped to 2nd and then 3rd. This was the sort of thing that I believe Mason refers to when planning 1993. A segment of the fan base absolutely refused to cut them any slack, no matter what they did or how good they were. That was stupid and unfortunate at the time, but the flip side is it made them produce '93. What a loss it would be if that had never come to pass. The notion that Jim Mason would purposely write a show in 93 to tick off the fans is just too funny for words. Anybody that knows Jim knows that he doesn't write musical scores to " tick off audiences " because of perceived ills in a previous year. Star of Indiana got off the field ( unfortunate and uncalled for, imo ) flack in some quarters because of some jealousy as they had a wealthy man ( Cook ) running their Corps. But in '92 their show was received well. If you heard some sporatic boos in '92 , it must have been jealousy at work, not anything to do with their show. The 92 show was well received it seemed to me. The 93 show was not as well received by audiences however. There could have been boos. I heard there was... similar to some fans of today booing BD. This part in 93 seems accurate from my personal observations at the time. And lets not forget it didn't win DCI in '93, the Cadets did. Even more surprising was that the Madison Scouts finished out of the TOP 3 in '94 the following year.For perspective, the Madison Scouts finishing 4th in '94 was WAY more unsettling with national fans at the time than was Carolina Crown finishing 2nd this year with the fans to the Blue Devils. Edited August 17, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesman Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) I remember there being a lot of resentment sent to Star since it's first appearance at DCI. I heard comments from friends like..."they didn't pay their dues...... they had it too easy because of a corporate sponsor". You would have thought that most of that would have gone away with that incredible championship show in 1991. But even that night you heard those same ridiculous sentiments from some. So it felt like the 1992 show was designed on the idea that if it was wrapped in a flag the petty resentments would go away. But when they were announced having dropped to 3rd the wild, enthusiastic crowd response was worse in my opinion than any booing I have heard since. It must have been truly painful to the members on the field. So I see how the Americana show of 92 was almost a plea to be loved and when that didn't happen we got a pure masterpiece in 93 that didn't require a single American flag or the approval of any resentful audience members. Edited August 17, 2012 by bluesman 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NakedEye Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I remember there being a lot of resentment sent to Star since it's first appearance at DCI. I heard comments from friends like..."they didn't pay their dues...... they had it too easy because of a corporate sponsor". You would have thought that most of that would have gone away with that incredible championship show in 1991. But even that night you heard those same ridiculous sentiments from some. So it felt like the 1992 show was designed on the idea that if it was wrapped in a flag the petty resentments would go away. But when they were announced having dropped to 3rd the wild, enthusiastic crowd response was worse in my opinion than any booing I have heard since. It must have been truly painful to the members on the field. So I see how the Americana show of 92 was almost a plea to be loved and when that didn't happen we got a pure masterpiece in 93 that didn't require a single American flag or the approval of any resentful audience members. Yup, that is how I remember it too, and very much recall the reactions over the three final days in Madison. The cheering for them in 3rd at finals was awful. Pretty similar to how Bill Cook remembers it too, on the Star website: "For Jim, 1992 was a pivotal year because the show was designed for a broad audience appeal and the result was a hostile crowd. At that time, he decided to explore different directions. His frustrations led him to the 1993 Medea program because he wanted to give the organization a vehicle where they would be in control of their performance from beginning to end. Looking back at Medea, there were no opportunities for the audience to react until the show was over. This concept made some of the audience uncomfortable and created even more controversy. I guess that was Jim's vengeance. Also at that time, he began to contemplate doing something other than drum corps with the Star of Indiana. Perhaps the seed of Brass Theater was planted during this period." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) I remember there being a lot of resentment sent to Star since it's first appearance at DCI. I heard comments from friends like..."they didn't pay their dues...... they had it too easy because of a corporate sponsor". You One has to make the distinction between those that were afiliated with Corps when Star of Indiana was around and the off the field jealousy there on display and how the non afiliated fans in the audiences felt toward the Star of Indiana. There was indeed an unfortunate palpaple and noticeable resentment in some competitive Corps of Stars resources that helped them in their meteroric rise and take them in placement beyond " their Corps ". But that was mostly competition jealousy. Most unafiliated fans seemed to like and enjoy the Star of Indiana shows. At least from where I sat most years. We have verification of this too, via crowd responses to most of their shows on DCI Fan Network. Like ALL Corps, not EVERY year is as big hit with national audiences, and Star did have a couple of seasons out of their 9 DCI seasons that were not as well received as the majority of their shows were when they were in DCI. But you are correct that they had resentment in some quarters for the wealth and resources that they could bring to competition. But thats much different than audiences reaction to shows who don't care what your assets are. The overwhelming vast majority of national audiences just respond mostly to whats in front of them. And most of the 9 years of Star in DCI, audiences responded quite favorably to their shiows as they were quite good and entertaining most years, and their brass line got better and better. Edited August 17, 2012 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElSuarez Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 The notion that Jim Mason would purposely write a show in 93 to tick off the fans is just too funny for words. Anybody that knows Jim knows that he doesn't write musical scores to " tick off audiences " because of perceived ills in a previous year. Star of Indiana got off the field ( unfortunate and uncalled for, imo ) flack in some quarters because of some jealousy as they had a wealthy man ( Cook ) running their Corps. But in '92 their show was received well. If you heard some sporatic boos in '92 , it must have been jealousy at work, not anything to do with their show. The 92 show was well received it seemed to me. The 93 show was not as well received by audiences however. There could have been boos. I heard there was... similar to some fans of today booing BD. This part in 93 seems accurate from my personal observations at the time. And lets not forget it didn't win DCI in '93, the Cadets did. Even more surprising was that the Madison Scouts finished out of the TOP 3 in '94 the following year.For perspective, the Madison Scouts finishing 4th in '94 was WAY more unsettling with national fans at the time than was Carolina Crown finishing 2nd this year with the fans to the Blue Devils. Did you mean 1995? Scouts were 6th in 1994. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesman Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 One has to make the distinction between those that were afiliated with Corps when Star of Indiana was around and the off the field jealousy there on display and how the non afiliated fans in the audiences felt toward the Star of Indiana. There was indeed an unfortunate palpaple and noticeable resentment in some competitive Corps of Stars resources that helped them in their meteroric rise and take them in placement beyond " their Corps ". But that was mostly competition jealousy. Most unafiliated fans seemed to like and enjoy the Star of Indiana shows. At least from where I sat most years. We have verification of this too, via crowd responses to most of their shows on DCI Fan Network. Like ALL Corps, not EVERY year is as big hit with national audiences, and Star did have a couple of seasons out of their 9 DCI seasons that were not as well received as the majority of their shows were when they were in DCI. But you are correct that they had resentment in some quarters for the wealth and resources that they could bring to competition. But thats much different than audiences reaction to shows who don't care what your assets are. The overwhelming vast majority of national audiences just respond mostly to whats in front of them. And most of the 9 years of Star in DCI, audiences responded quite favorably to their shiows as they were quite good and entertaining most years, and their brass line got better and better. It felt as if the majority of the resentment came from older former corps members that may have never competed against Star. But they saw older more established corps they had either marched with or been a fan of being passed by a corps with a perceived financial advantage. Of course it could have just been the people I had the displeasure of sitting next to in some of those years. . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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