pmaustin Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 When Erie scored 105, everyone cracked up, congratulated their fellow corps members and "competitors" for turning the place on, raised their glasses and partied til about 3. There was a time - not too long ago - when the winners were announced to a near empty hall as 2,500 people had gotten up and left after the last performance. They were out of their chairs to begin with (standing o), so they took the next logical step...to the party. Even the performers left the building. You'd hear them an hour later with a beer in their hand asking, "how'd we do, anyway?" Who we doing this for anyway? Was it more fun when it didnt matter so much? Its a gift that DCA figured this Mini Corps thing out in the first place. There is NO OTHER PLACE IN ALL OF DRUM CORPS that 18 horn outfits can get top billing, a "must see" mystique, draw a huge audience and have them throwing babies at the end. NOWHERE. Comparing where we were to where we are.....looking at this thread...did the pendulum swing a little far? where's the fun? and where's the focus? look how seriously we are taking ourselves....show design deficiencies compared to the other corps? Really? It's I&E. All the groups and individuals....snare, ensemble, flag, chorus get one thing when they leave...a sheet...with about three comments on it and a score. Mini corps are a shade bigger than the brass ensembles (who get one of those sheets, 3 comments and a score). And everyone's having a ball. Maybe less is more. It might be time to have the winner of Mini Corps by applause meter and chuck the sheets (and tapes) altogether. Come to think of it, that might work. (and it would STILL be a contest ) Stay tuned. Joe, You raise a number of valid points, but the fact remains that the activity changed dramatically that night in 2006, when Star United showed up and played for the first time in Rochester (for the better in my opinion). From that date on, it would never be enough to just show up and play, as you now had a group in the activity that has continued to push the boundaries of excellence - I'd say after seven wins in a row, they've done just that. What to do as a member of a competing unit? Do you just roll-over and not show up anymore (as several groups have chosen to do), or do you try your best to close the gap and produce the very best product that you can? Fortunately, there are still enough groups in this activity that will not settle for mediocrity - just because Mini Corps are small in number, doesn't mean that our competitive fires burn less brightly than larger organizations. I promise you, that if you had to jump into the ring every year and compete against the likes of Star (and all of the other very talented groups that participated), you would want beneficial feedback as well. It is a simple and reasonable request isn't it? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Drum Corps Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) That's good information, Gary. Has it always been this way, or was there a little more wiggle on this in the 90's and before all the recording and so forth? And what's the cutoff? Can a brass ensemble play a chart at I&E without sweating the royalty/public performance thing? The "Mini Corps as a property/DCA as a producer" thing is important to the conversation. So is the proof of a million dollar insurance coverage. Rights to record, arrange, perform etc...cost us a few corps this year because they didnt know they needed to do this. This started in the 2000's not the 1990's. That was a little of my personal problem with having an exhibituion group leat year that didnt have to do any of this in the venue we have established as going by the rules. So maybe it is not a favor to get in DCA (or whatever Jeff said...submit a bid ) when we pay our way dearly. We have investments as our friends from Boston talked about. DA Edited September 6, 2012 by Donny Drum Corps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) When Erie scored 105, Edited September 6, 2012 by Gary Matczak 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishbonecav Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) I waited for someone with skin in the game to bring up the white elephant in the room. I'm glad you did. Since the Star crew is friends of mine (i am an honorary member of Star United from 2009 forward, with the scarf to prove it), I can make a few comments without being misinterpreted as having a Darth Vader complex about it. I'll start with this: pushing boundaries is one thing; doing your own thing is another. I think the free form rules of mini corps allowed for a certain amount of creative expression, but seeing the corps on a football field marked off with cones doing a field corps presentation is so far from the original mission and design of mini corps that it became something different altogether. "Look what we can do...because no one told us we couldnt"...has pretty much allowed one group to define its own interpretation of the game and, without restraint, invent a new game. It begs the question: who's in charge, here? There are rules for any game, and that's not a bad thing. Think about the field corps: no woodwinds, the flag has to be guarded, its a 100 yard field, no electronics. break the rules at your own peril. Star brought a bunch of new elements to the minicorps game, but they really did so without asking. A full drill? That's not playing our game. I've referred to it as the Star freak show (most often in a positive-smile-on-the-face sense, but also a choice of words rooted in the reality of the situation) and this year's deal as a Frankenstein (I guess that makes Josh the mad scientist, but he's a big boy who would probably read this with a smile and understanding). The first word that came to mind when i saw the 20 YARD field in Annapolis was: NO. this ain't it. It's the antithesis of "it". How we allowed the mini corps stage to go from a parking lot (Scranton) to a ballroom to a Convention Hall riser to the 20 yard field is beyond me. Why did we allow the rules/boundaries of Mini Corps to be bent that far? Because it was StarU? WHOEVER IT WAS....Does anyone have the jam to just say no? Simple..."No, we arent going to do that..that's taking it a little too far, guys, not quite in the spirit of the thing,sorry...and, No, we arent going to accomodate that as a one-off, either. Here's the boundary. Looking forward to your presentation." The Star 2012 presentation belonged at A-Prelims, as a marching unit following THOSE rules; NOT at Mini Corps which is and always was designed to be a MUSIC ENSEMBLE judged on a GE music sheet. And I'm not blaming Star for doing it....and it was pretty cool, actually....but it wasnt MiniCorps, IMO. I'm of the opinion that, had the sheet / rules of THIS game, not the one Star unintentionally (?)'invented' but the one they arrived to play at, been adhered to right along, this 7 for 7 thing wouldn't be kicking the conversation in the butt right now. I'm of the opinion that the Red Pony would have, at the very least, gotten a split decision. I did want to address this comment: "it would never be enough to just show up and play". Never enough to do what? WIN MINI CORPS? Go beat Star? The point of mini corps was to show up and play, and turn some people on in the process. If it's about Star-chasing and medals, then it's not better. If its about fewer groups instead of more...then its not better. (I'll add: if it becomes less about your audience and more about you, its not better) Re: all the "raise the bar" talk....Spain and Lithuania both put a scare into Team USA and sure made Olympic basketball more interesting this year. The US team couldnt just decide arbitrarily, however, to crank the baskets to 12 feet. FIBA wouldnt go for that. They had to play by the rules. Joe, You raise a number of valid points, but the fact remains that the activity changed dramatically that night in 2006, when Star United showed up and played for the first time in Rochester (for the better in my opinion). From that date on, it would never be enough to just show up and play, as you now had a group in the activity that has continued to push the boundaries of excellence - I'd say after seven wins in a row, they've done just that. What to do as a member of a competing unit? Do you just roll-over and not show up anymore (as several groups have chosen to do), or do you try your best to close the gap and produce the very best product that you can? Fortunately, there are still enough groups in this activity that will not settle for mediocrity - just because Mini Corps are small in number, doesn't mean that our competitive fires burn less brightly than larger organizations. I promise you, that if you had to jump into the ring every year and compete against the likes of Star (and all of the other very talented groups that participated), you would want beneficial feedback as well. It is a simple and reasonable request isn't it? Edited September 12, 2012 by wishbonecav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishbonecav Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) AWESOME!!!!! Remember it like YESTERDAY!! Great shot :) Edited September 6, 2012 by wishbonecav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 come to think about it,......this is a photo for NanciD's "Guess Who" thread,............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishbonecav Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 (edited) "" a little self serving...erased for wrong focus Edited September 6, 2012 by wishbonecav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Drum Corps Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 OK then...I designed a show to fit the rules of the game, Since I had input into how we would get judged, size of the field....(which BTW were similar to the stage in Rochester 60'x60' or 20 yards square). Even thought out a show that had ties to the area....(Civil War) (Yankee Rebels), costuming, stylisitically, idiomatically correct and performed to best abilities of our performers. We came in third. Our performers did the very best we could do. We are very proud of the performance we put out there at DCA. Star watched from the tunnel and I have a feeling that they understood we did not just hand them the trophy. I was honestly approached by many people and I am still getting comments that this could have been the year that they got knocked off. I am sort of OK with that. The original idea of "visual enhancement" was apparent throughout the show. "Visual enhancement" is NOT drill, it is meant as ways to "visually enhance" the music effectiveness. This is not Star United's fault! For some reason there has been no training to what is "drill to do drill" and well thought out ways to "visually enhance" a show. IM (biased) O, Ghost Riders did that best. Heck, we even had "military bearing". ($1.00 to Gary Matczak). But alas, we did not do drill the best. The point is the teams like Erie, a perennial winner for years, Golden Eagles, a DCA mini corps Champion, and other teams just aint coming anymore. Oh I also forgot to tell Jeff and others that besides all the aforementioned fees we have, there is also a 100.00 dollar entrance fee. So yeah we care about fair treatment. I am actually for the Op's contention that we still havent figured it out, and have continously volunteered to help the activity stay alive and grow. So there is some work to do in the off season, and I truly believe that DCA could not have a better guy than Kevin Hassan to push things into the right direction. I also believe that if Minne Brass or Ghost Riders were announced first and or second, the crowd would not have booed for the first time in a number of years. So be it... in the record books. But before we jump on a bandwagon that the OP is whining about a placement, I didnt get that from his concern. We need to look at some of this stuff, and it's OK. DA 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 The original idea of "visual enhancement" was apparent throughout the show. "Visual enhancement" is NOT drill, it is meant as ways to "visually enhance" the music effectiveness. This is not Star United's fault! For some reason there has been no training to what is "drill to do drill" and well thought out ways to "visually enhance" a show. IM (biased) O, Ghost Riders did that best. Heck, we even had "military bearing". ($1.00 to Gary Matczak). But alas, we did not do drill the best. that dollar goes to none other than Nick Filia,........lol,....when I heard "military bearing" come out of his mouth, I was as stunned as you were,........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 When Erie scored 105, everyone cracked up, congratulated their fellow corps members and "competitors" for turning the place on, raised their glasses and partied til about 3. There was a time - not too long ago - when the winners were announced to a near empty hall as 2,500 people had gotten up and left after the last performance. They were out of their chairs to begin with (standing o), so they took the next logical step...to the party. Even the performers left the building. You'd hear them an hour later with a beer in their hand asking, "how'd we do, anyway?" Who we doing this for anyway? Was it more fun when it didnt matter so much? Its a gift that DCA figured this Mini Corps thing out in the first place. There is NO OTHER PLACE IN ALL OF DRUM CORPS that 18 horn outfits can get top billing, a "must see" mystique, draw a huge audience and have them throwing babies at the end. NOWHERE. Comparing where we were to where we are.....looking at this thread...did the pendulum swing a little far? where's the fun? and where's the focus? look how seriously we are taking ourselves....show design deficiencies compared to the other corps? Really? It's I&E. All the groups and individuals....snare, ensemble, flag, chorus get one thing when they leave...a sheet...with about three comments on it and a score. Mini corps are a shade bigger than the brass ensembles (who get one of those sheets, 3 comments and a score). And everyone's having a ball. Maybe less is more. It might be time to have the winner of Mini Corps by applause meter and chuck the sheets (and tapes) altogether. Come to think of it, that might work. (and it would STILL be a contest ) Stay tuned. dude, after this post, I love you. platonically speaking in that man give ya a free beer kind of way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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