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Could it happen?


azul

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See if this happened at a Prelims?

I'm interested too. (It might have happened at DCA?)

It was the audio CD collection booklet, I think, that said Star in '91 didn't win a caption outright but tied in three.

Mike

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Assumuing the following:

1) A caption winner will be in the top 8

2) There are 5 captions, each scored in the range of 0-20.

3) Actual caption values for the top 8 are in the range of 18.0 to 20.0

3) Captions are scored in tenths.

I ran a simulation of 10,000 finals, randomly assigning a number from 18.0 to 20.0 to each of the 5 captions for 8 finalists.

(The simulation ignores 'years' where there is an outright tie for 1st and 2nd, due to the fact that in the event of a tie, the winner is determined by ordinals - meaning that the winner had to have won atleast 1 caption.)

A finals winner has no outright captions about 9% of the time.

(Added: The average margin of victory for a no caption winner is 0.5. For a winner with atleast 1 caption, 0.8.)

For those sufficiently curious, here is the code (in Smalltalk) that does the simulation:

  yearlyResults:=OrderedCollection new.
  rnd:=Random standard.
 rnd seed:Time now seconds.
 numGroups:=8.
 numCaptions:=5.
 scoreCalculator:=[ ((((rnd next * 2) + 18) *10) rounded / 10) asFixedPoint:1 ].
 10000 timesRepeat:[
    | results |
    results:=SortedCollection sortBlock:[ :a :b | (a at:1) > (b at:1) ].
    1 to:numGroups do:[ :group |
        | captionResults sum |
        captionResults:=Array new:numCaptions + 1.
   sum:=0.
        1 to:numCaptions do:[ :caption |
           captionResults at:caption+1 put:scoreCalculator value.
           sum:=sum+(captionResults at:caption+1).
    ].
         captionResults at:1 put:sum.
         results add:captionResults.
     ].
     yearlyResults add:results.
 ].
yearlyResults:=yearlyResults reject:[ :result | result first first = result second first ].
yearsNoCaption:=OrderedCollection new.
numWinnerNoCaptions:=0.
 yearlyResults do:[ :result |
   | winner  captionsWon |
   winner:=result at:1.
    captionsWon:=0.
   2 to:numCaptions+1 do:[ :caption |
      |  highestCaptionScore |
      highestCaptionScore:=winner at:caption.
   	2 to:result size do:[ :otherIndex |
        | other |
       other:=result at:otherIndex.
        (other at:caption) > highestCaptionScore ifTrue:[ highestCaptionScore:=other at:caption ].
     ].
     (winner at:caption) = highestCaptionScore  ifTrue:[ captionsWon:=captionsWon+1 ].
   ].
   captionsWon = 0 ifTrue:[ numWinnerNoCaptions:=numWinnerNoCaptions+1. yearsNoCaption add:result ].
].

Edited by Tim Coffey
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Hasn't this happened before? i seem to remember sometime in the 80s that someone won without winning a caption.

From the notes I keep for such a thing.

1991

For first time in DCI finals history, the Champion (Star of Indiana) did not win a single caption outright, but instead tied in three captions.

Other caption trivia some may find of interest:

1974

Madision Scouts received the first perfect caption score to be awarded at a DCI World Championship; for brass.

1976

Blue Devils became the youngest corps (in its sixth year of competition) to win the DCI title, and also became the first corps to win all finals captions.

1980

Due to a tie for High Percussion, five different corps shared the four high caption scores.

1986

Blue Devils became only the second corps to sweep all captions at finals, the other being Devils from ten years earlier.

1987

Garfield Cadets edged Santa Clara Vanguard by just .1 for the title, with SCV having lost only lost two shows all season, both in the final week and both by only .1. Both the top two corps won only one caption and tied two captions with each other.

Blue Devils’ streak of winning at least one caption at DCI World finals was snapped, after standing for 11 years-in-a-row.

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It sort of almost happened at Allentown in 1978.

Concord won first place overall, but the only caption 'win' was a GE tie with Bayonne.

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Embarrassed to say..."i found one"

Not a finals....but a show where the winner didnt win a caption.

June 27, 2001; Bloomington IL

HIGH GE: Boston

HIGH Vis: Regiment

High Music: Regiment

High Brass: Regiment

High Color Guard: Boston

High Drums: Regiment

No penalties.

Winner? Glassmen

http://www.fromthepressbox.com/20010627dcicentralil.htm

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And another...

June 20, 1976; Westwood, NJ

High M&M: Muchachos

High Drums: Bridgemen

High Horns: Muchachos

High GE: Bridgemen

Winner? Garfield Cadets

http://www.fromthepressbox.com/19760620westwood.htm

I am soooo bored.

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More to the point:

Denver, 1978 Open Prelims

High M&M: Santa Clara Vanguard

High Drums: Madison Scouts

High Horns: Blue Devils

High GE: Santa Clara Vanguard

Winner? (2nd in all captions)...Phantom Regiment; Vanguard; tie :lookaround:

http://www.fromthepressbox.com/19780816div1prelims.htm

AND

1983 Open Class Semi Finals (Miami)

High M&M: Blue Devils

High Percussion: Blue Devils

High Brass: Garfield Cadets

High GE: Garfield Cadets

Winner? Santa Clara Vanguard

http://www.fromthepressbox.com/19830819div1semifinals.htm

Edited by wishbonecav
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...

1983 Open Class Semi Finals (Miami)

High M&M: Blue Devils

High Percussion: Blue Devils

High Brass: Garfield Cadets

High GE: Garfield Cadets

Winner? Santa Clara Vanguard

I had totally forgotten SCV had won that show. I had to look it up on Corpsreps to convince myself.

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Its about as common as hitting for the cycle or a Mets no-hitter.

1976, 1978, 1983, 2001

looks like we're due. :tongue:

But replying to the OP....not only could it happen....it has. :smile:

I had totally forgotten SCV had won that show. I had to look it up on Corpsreps to convince myself.

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