wishbonecav Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 See if this happened at a Prelims? I'm interested too. (It might have happened at DCA?) It was the audio CD collection booklet, I think, that said Star in '91 didn't win a caption outright but tied in three. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Coffey Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) Assumuing the following: 1) A caption winner will be in the top 8 2) There are 5 captions, each scored in the range of 0-20. 3) Actual caption values for the top 8 are in the range of 18.0 to 20.0 3) Captions are scored in tenths. I ran a simulation of 10,000 finals, randomly assigning a number from 18.0 to 20.0 to each of the 5 captions for 8 finalists. (The simulation ignores 'years' where there is an outright tie for 1st and 2nd, due to the fact that in the event of a tie, the winner is determined by ordinals - meaning that the winner had to have won atleast 1 caption.) A finals winner has no outright captions about 9% of the time. (Added: The average margin of victory for a no caption winner is 0.5. For a winner with atleast 1 caption, 0.8.) For those sufficiently curious, here is the code (in Smalltalk) that does the simulation: yearlyResults:=OrderedCollection new. rnd:=Random standard. rnd seed:Time now seconds. numGroups:=8. numCaptions:=5. scoreCalculator:=[ ((((rnd next * 2) + 18) *10) rounded / 10) asFixedPoint:1 ]. 10000 timesRepeat:[ | results | results:=SortedCollection sortBlock:[ :a :b | (a at:1) > (b at:1) ]. 1 to:numGroups do:[ :group | | captionResults sum | captionResults:=Array new:numCaptions + 1. sum:=0. 1 to:numCaptions do:[ :caption | captionResults at:caption+1 put:scoreCalculator value. sum:=sum+(captionResults at:caption+1). ]. captionResults at:1 put:sum. results add:captionResults. ]. yearlyResults add:results. ]. yearlyResults:=yearlyResults reject:[ :result | result first first = result second first ]. yearsNoCaption:=OrderedCollection new. numWinnerNoCaptions:=0. yearlyResults do:[ :result | | winner captionsWon | winner:=result at:1. captionsWon:=0. 2 to:numCaptions+1 do:[ :caption | | highestCaptionScore | highestCaptionScore:=winner at:caption. 2 to:result size do:[ :otherIndex | | other | other:=result at:otherIndex. (other at:caption) > highestCaptionScore ifTrue:[ highestCaptionScore:=other at:caption ]. ]. (winner at:caption) = highestCaptionScore ifTrue:[ captionsWon:=captionsWon+1 ]. ]. captionsWon = 0 ifTrue:[ numWinnerNoCaptions:=numWinnerNoCaptions+1. yearsNoCaption add:result ]. ]. Edited September 18, 2012 by Tim Coffey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Hasn't this happened before? i seem to remember sometime in the 80s that someone won without winning a caption. From the notes I keep for such a thing. 1991 For first time in DCI finals history, the Champion (Star of Indiana) did not win a single caption outright, but instead tied in three captions. Other caption trivia some may find of interest: 1974 Madision Scouts received the first perfect caption score to be awarded at a DCI World Championship; for brass. 1976 Blue Devils became the youngest corps (in its sixth year of competition) to win the DCI title, and also became the first corps to win all finals captions. 1980 Due to a tie for High Percussion, five different corps shared the four high caption scores. 1986 Blue Devils became only the second corps to sweep all captions at finals, the other being Devils from ten years earlier. 1987 Garfield Cadets edged Santa Clara Vanguard by just .1 for the title, with SCV having lost only lost two shows all season, both in the final week and both by only .1. Both the top two corps won only one caption and tied two captions with each other. Blue Devils’ streak of winning at least one caption at DCI World finals was snapped, after standing for 11 years-in-a-row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c mor Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 It sort of almost happened at Allentown in 1978. Concord won first place overall, but the only caption 'win' was a GE tie with Bayonne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishbonecav Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Embarrassed to say..."i found one" Not a finals....but a show where the winner didnt win a caption. June 27, 2001; Bloomington IL HIGH GE: Boston HIGH Vis: Regiment High Music: Regiment High Brass: Regiment High Color Guard: Boston High Drums: Regiment No penalties. Winner? Glassmen http://www.fromthepressbox.com/20010627dcicentralil.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishbonecav Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 And another... June 20, 1976; Westwood, NJ High M&M: Muchachos High Drums: Bridgemen High Horns: Muchachos High GE: Bridgemen Winner? Garfield Cadets http://www.fromthepressbox.com/19760620westwood.htm I am soooo bored. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishbonecav Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) More to the point: Denver, 1978 Open Prelims High M&M: Santa Clara Vanguard High Drums: Madison Scouts High Horns: Blue Devils High GE: Santa Clara Vanguard Winner? (2nd in all captions)...Phantom Regiment; Vanguard; tie http://www.fromthepressbox.com/19780816div1prelims.htm AND 1983 Open Class Semi Finals (Miami) High M&M: Blue Devils High Percussion: Blue Devils High Brass: Garfield Cadets High GE: Garfield Cadets Winner? Santa Clara Vanguard http://www.fromthepressbox.com/19830819div1semifinals.htm Edited September 18, 2012 by wishbonecav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Boo Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 ... 1983 Open Class Semi Finals (Miami) High M&M: Blue Devils High Percussion: Blue Devils High Brass: Garfield Cadets High GE: Garfield Cadets Winner? Santa Clara Vanguard I had totally forgotten SCV had won that show. I had to look it up on Corpsreps to convince myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishbonecav Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Its about as common as hitting for the cycle or a Mets no-hitter. 1976, 1978, 1983, 2001 looks like we're due. But replying to the OP....not only could it happen....it has. I had totally forgotten SCV had won that show. I had to look it up on Corpsreps to convince myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 And another... June 20, 1976; Westwood, NJ High M&M: Muchachos High Drums: Bridgemen High Horns: Muchachos High GE: Bridgemen Winner? Garfield Cadets http://www.fromthepressbox.com/19760620westwood.htm I am soooo bored. They sort-of won the T&P caption with a 0. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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