Could it happen?

[c mor]

I understand your point that " it was a different era ", and this is true. But for some perspective, by 1977 a lot of these Corps were not quite as " local " as they were a decade earlier. They still drew most of their talent regionally however. They did not have access to hundreds of auditioneers. No Corps did. So thats even a bigger accomplishment, imo. Also, unlike 2012, where there is one percussion judge, there were 2 percussion judges. The Oakland Crusaders won with both judges in the '77 DCI Prelims, and in each of the 2 captions in both too, for a total of winning all 4 Percussion Captions across the board.. and by a lot, 6.5 tenths ( over Blue Devils, who came in 2nd in Percussion in the prelims and eventually won the 1977 Title the next nite, as well as High Percussion Award ). The Oakland Crusaders finished 1st in Percussion out of 45 Drum Corps in the Prelims that year, another amazing thing. Thats because of the sheer numbers of Corps that could have topped them in Percussion in the Prelims. This was not an anomaly for the Corps that year either, as they had beaten a lot of these top Corps in Percussion that year prior to the prelims that summer. For example, they failed to make the top 12 at Allentown, ( finished 13th ) but finished 2nd in Percussion in that Prelims. By mid July they were either winning drums or close to it in every show they competed in, no matter the competition.

I expect to get hammered for this, but I have to say something anyway. This topic comes up on occasion...I'm tempted to say nothing and let it pass, but it also feels a bit like "sand in the bathing suit." I was in the BD line 76-78, so I have some perspective on this era too. First let me say I certainly want to give props to Etobicoke for their great drum line. There actually were several great lines going back and forth for the 3 years I was in.

27th, Madison, SCV, Kilties, Phantom, Bridgemen, Freelancers, were all great. If you check recaps you'll see winners all over the place.

At the time, in our line, we were all about the night show - finals. We did not hype for prelims, as they are called prelims for a reason. Now, maybe that's not the best attitude to have, but that's just the way it was. In 76 Etobicoke won prelims in drums at Whitewater with a 17.65, BD scored a 17.40, and Madison a 16.85. We did a smokin hot show that night, and at finals, BD scored an 18.85, Madison a 17.95, and Etobicoke a 17.75.

In 77 Whitewater,

Prelims drums

Phantom 17.5

Bridgemen 17.2

27 17.1

Madison 16.45

Kilties 16.45

Finals drums

27 & Kilties 18.15

Phantom & Bridgement 17.45

Madison 17.2

All of that to say, the Crusaders won high drums at prelims in 77. You can't automatically assume the same outcome at finals. Would it have been possible? Sure. Likely? Maybe. But not for certain. As much as we'd like to discuss it and revise history, we can't. That could have only happened with both corps at the same show with the same judges. I wish they had made finals just so we wouldn't have this issue 35 years later.

And for the record, we did have a few "imports", but most of our corps, especially the drum line, was from a 50 mile radius around Concord.

[tubabeard42]

Hm. This reminds of championships (SCJA specifically) my senior year in high school. My school got first in Visual Performance but third in Visual Effect. The High Visual caption in our division went to a school that didn't get first in any visual category, having gotten second across the board.

In DCI, it does seem quite unlikely, but it would be interesting to see it happen.

Edited September 20, 2012 by tubabeard42

[Jeff Ream]

it's actually not that difficult. If someone is "close" in GE, say 2nd by .2 or .3, but is 1 point up in percussion or brass, then they can easily win without winning GE. Sometimes, it is a smaller caption than GE that decides things. Look at 2008. BD's percussion tanked them, and kept them from winning. Probably stopped them in 2000 as well.

with the way the performance captions are averaged, it's a big spread needed. usually it takes at least winning one of the GE's ala Phantom 08

[Jeff Ream]

Because BD was 5th in drums. That was the difference that led to Phantom winning

ensemble helped too

[BRASSO]

All of that to say, the Crusaders won high drums at prelims in 77. You can't automatically assume the same outcome at finals.

Thats right, and nobody said this either. Nobody can assume anything in another show. For a more recent example, BD would've won DCI in 2008 if they got the percussion score they got in the Semi's, the next nite at Finals. But they didn't. So we can't " automatically assume the same outcome ( percussion ) at Finals " based upon what a Corps got in the Semi's, just as you correctly pointed out. The score and placement is what a Corps got that show. no more, but no less either.

Edited September 20, 2012 by BRASSO

[wishbonecav]

I'll buy this.

Is it an "issue" 35 years later? Not really. Its just a fun point of conversation.

The High Drumline from 1977 has a trophy that says so.

I expect to get hammered for this, but I have to say something anyway. This topic comes up on occasion... I wish they had made finals just so we wouldn't have this issue 35 years later.

Edited September 20, 2012 by wishbonecav

[Jeff Ream]

I expect to get hammered for this, but I have to say something anyway. This topic comes up on occasion...I'm tempted to say nothing and let it pass, but it also feels a bit like "sand in the bathing suit." I was in the BD line 76-78, so I have some perspective on this era too. First let me say I certainly want to give props to Etobicoke for their great drum line. There actually were several great lines going back and forth for the 3 years I was in.

27th, Madison, SCV, Kilties, Phantom, Bridgemen, Freelancers, were all great. If you check recaps you'll see winners all over the place.

At the time, in our line, we were all about the night show - finals. We did not hype for prelims, as they are called prelims for a reason. Now, maybe that's not the best attitude to have, but that's just the way it was. In 76 Etobicoke won prelims in drums at Whitewater with a 17.65, BD scored a 17.40, and Madison a 16.85. We did a smokin hot show that night, and at finals, BD scored an 18.85, Madison a 17.95, and Etobicoke a 17.75.

In 77 Whitewater,

Prelims drums

Phantom 17.5

Bridgemen 17.2

27 17.1

Madison 16.45

Kilties 16.45

Finals drums

27 & Kilties 18.15

Phantom & Bridgement 17.45

Madison 17.2

All of that to say, the Crusaders won high drums at prelims in 77. You can't automatically assume the same outcome at finals. Would it have been possible? Sure. Likely? Maybe. But not for certain. As much as we'd like to discuss it and revise history, we can't. That could have only happened with both corps at the same show with the same judges. I wish they had made finals just so we wouldn't have this issue 35 years later.

And for the record, we did have a few "imports", but most of our corps, especially the drum line, was from a 50 mile radius around Concord.

well, you have to have enough of a total package to have that shot.

Bayone had enough around the awesome drumline in 83 to be in the hunt.

conversly, DCA had the Matadors in 86 with an awesome guard,and the corps total was 11th at prelims. Somehow that night they became a finalist so that guard could win.

[sarnia sam]

That is one of my most glaring examples, but I didn't use it because whenever I've mentioned it in the past, I've received responses that it's still too painful for some who were in the line, which was instructed by Tom Float.

Naw, it's not too painful, maybe a little. BUT, you guys keep bringing it up ever 6 months or so - what could be better than that, to be remembered.

Regards,

John

[sarnia sam]

And Al?

Not in 77.

Regards,

John