Is This Still Fun?

[reallyoldfrt]

For what it's worth:

In the discussion about the state of the drum and bugle corps activity, those who support the current environment cite the musical, visual, and athletic aspects. Those qualities can't be denied. Today's performers are more highly skilled and trained more intensely. The music, costuming, and moves are far beyond what existed in the 60s and 70s.

However, a better measure of the health of the activity is in the number of events and thus the number of people who witness the activity. In the 60s and 70s, there were hundreds of local events in Wisconsin and many other states at which drum corps performed: civic events, bridge openings, state and country fairs, Fourth of July, Ice cream socials, parish picnics, Memorial Day, Labor Day, Veteran's Day, St. Patrick's day. It was hard to avoid seeing a drum corps. If your city had a parade, there were going to be drum corps in it. If you had a county fair, there would be a parade and a contest. Cities of 5,000 hosted championship quality corps. So during that time, drum corps was out in the hustings creating fans and instilling in kids the desire to participate.

The Racine Scouts survived on these festivals. We did two a weekend and sometimes four in a day. On a Fourth of July weekend, we were always seen by over a hundred thousand people and, depending on crowd estimates, sometimes up to 250,000. And those same people saw other corps, too. On a regular weekend, we could be seen by 20,000. The Racine Fourth of July parade, in the early 60s, often had more than 15 drum corps and sometimes up to 20.

So, you could reasonably estimate that on a regular summer weekend in the mid 60s, several million people witnessed a drum and bugle corps in the United States.

How many people see drum corps today? How many kids now sit on a curb, see a drum corps and say "I want to be in that."? How many adults see a local show and decide they want to see a big show with a lot of great corps?

Drum corps today is musically and visually excellent. But compared to the 60s, it has no audience and it is not developing one.

To me it's worth a lot. You've accurately portrayed the drum corps situation in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, vis a vis it's current status, where a fundamentally flawed view of it's own importance, and place in the arts establishment, has left it spurned by the majority of the hundreds of thousands of people who participated in the corps of the past, disregarded by the majority of people actually in the arts establishment, and beyond the talent levels and financial capabilities of most potential participants and fans. Boy! That was a long sentence!!

Drum corps was viable as an all inclusive youth activity for people in low and middle income levels. Anyone could be in a corps if they so desired. It was locally based. Operated year round. And included many other social activities both during the off season. (Individuals contests, color guard contests, dances, hockey games, and the occasional military ball). And, during the summer there were circuit parties, picnics, baseball tournaments, and swimming parties, woven in around the contest schedules. Only about 5% of corps toured. Perhaps another 10% might make a trip out of state once or twice a year. And, even then they wouldn't go far.

There were plenty of other corps in their own area to compete against, get to develop rivalries with, hang around with, and get to know. No one had to tour. Few could afford to tour. The entire activity was locally based, inexpensive to participate in, and OPEN TO ALL COMERS. Even if your corps stunk on ice you could still have fun. And, under the tick system, you always had a chance to improve your scores simply by working harder at executing your program, even if that program also stunk.

There was no real money to be made in the activity. Even the big corps, (and there were always big corps) were very modestly funded. Corps Directors were volunteers, instructors worked for gas money, and maybe a cup of coffee. They all did it because they loved it.

That's all gone now. Money uber Alles.

[pearlsnaredrummer77]

To me it's worth a lot. You've accurately portrayed the drum corps situation in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, vis a vis it's current status, where a fundamentally flawed view of it's own importance, and place in the arts establishment, has left it spurned by the majority of the hundreds of thousands of people who participated in the corps of the past, disregarded by the majority of people actually in the arts establishment, and beyond the talent levels and financial capabilities of most potential participants and fans. Boy! That was a long sentence!!

Drum corps was viable as an all inclusive youth activity for people in low and middle income levels. Anyone could be in a corps if they so desired. It was locally based. Operated year round. And included many other social activities both during the off season. (Individuals contests, color guard contests, dances, hockey games, and the occasional military ball). And, during the summer there were circuit parties, picnics, baseball tournaments, and swimming parties, woven in around the contest schedules. Only about 5% of corps toured. Perhaps another 10% might make a trip out of state once or twice a year. And, even then they wouldn't go far.

There were plenty of other corps in their own area to compete against, get to develop rivalries with, hang around with, and get to know. No one had to tour. Few could afford to tour. The entire activity was locally based, inexpensive to participate in, and OPEN TO ALL COMERS. Even if your corps stunk on ice you could still have fun. And, under the tick system, you always had a chance to improve your scores simply by working harder at executing your program, even if that program also stunk.

There was no real money to be made in the activity. Even the big corps, (and there were always big corps) were very modestly funded. Corps Directors were volunteers, instructors worked for gas money, and maybe a cup of coffee. They all did it because they loved it.

That's all gone now. Money uber Alles.

The irony of it is all is that despite all of the elitism, alleged musicality of today's drum corps (band) shows, and undeniable excellence of the performers, they produce a less entertaining, enjoyable product. The only people who really like it are the corps staffs and the judges. There is something so banal about all of the artistic pretension of today: "bringing to life one's artistic vision in poetry of dance and music." Whatever. At least back in the day, there were few illusions about what we were; what we were doing and it's contributions to "art."

Edited April 13, 2013 by pearlsnaredrummer77

[The Other Mike]

What happened to the fat kids ? They no longer are included.

[KeithHall]

They were fat but due to the conditioning coaches and great physical workouts, drum corps has single-handedly become the NEW Beachbody's!

[Robert Kirby]

To the points brought up by Mike Boo and Mike Davis (or Fred and Bob, to use her primary pseudonyms :hehe:/>/>/>/>/>/>/>), HS marching band really isn't a replacement for local drum corps. I'm not saying that the smaller corps of the 50s, 60s and early 70s gave a more enjoyable performance than today's HS bands, since enjoyment is entirely a matter of taste. Indeed, I think the enjoyment of the audience is well down on the list of reasons why one might wish that the state of play today was closer to that of 50 years ago. No, I'm talking about the experience of those who actually matter, the kids.

In my school district, proportionally fewer kids have the competitive marching experience today than had that experience in the 1950s through, roughly speaking, 1980 or so. During that time all the HS in my district had competitive bands AND those kids were within 15 miles of small drum corps. The numbers of drum corps were small in the 20s and 30s, but after WWII rose quickly to 2 senior and 6 or 7 junior corps within 20 miles, all of which were active through the "Golden Age" of the 50s and 60s.

Sadly, beginning in the early 70s those drum corps died off one by one. For lots of reasons, not all of which were the result of DCI. Many have remarked on the effect the Viet Nam era draft had on junior corps directly, and the effect the general post-Viet Nam culture had on support infrastructures that kept small corps going. I think both those observations are apt, but I have to observe that my junior corps, the last survivor of the "Golden Age" corps, was killed off by a new corps started by a guy who marched in a DCI World Champion corps, and who actively promoted his start-up as being the "World Class corps" our area deserved, as distinct from the "little corps" in town. That "little corps" had been good enough to make Class A finals in US Open and DCI, but that was still small potatoes. By the way, that "World Class corps" lasted four years.

So, today there are no junior corps in my area. Those high school bands, which by your thesis are the modern version of community corps, aren't there for the kids. While all the bands in my county school system competed when I was in school, in recent years half to three-quarters have not competed. The next county over is just as bad. One third of the "County Schools" don't compete and half the "Independent Public" schools don't compete. In my area, as in much of the country, the county and independent public schools have geographically closed enrollment. And NONE of the private high schools in either county, to which parents have taken there children to escape the public schools, have competitive marching programs. Scratch that; none of them have ANY marching programs.

The high school bands of today that are competitive aren't analogous to the small corps of our day:

(1) A school band can become non-competitive at the sole discretion of the director, in some cases.

(2) In other cases, the HS band is at the service of the football team first. Any provision for a competitive marching program is well down the list of priorities.

(3) Often, I hear from kids that they don't want any more to do with their school than they have to. Representing the school by marching in the band is a total non-starter for those kids.

I guess I would like some acknowledgement that it isn't just a matter of saying "Kids don't need and wouldn't use the Class A corps." Some of them do, and some of them would, and it makes me sad that they aren't around.

[pearlsnaredrummer77]

Truthfully, for the drum and bugle corps activity, i think it will better for the current DCI organizations to complete their transformation into competitive marching bands by adding woodwinds and whatever else they do in band land. These organizations are in a limbo state. Their administrations and staff want them to be marching bands with woodwinds, but fear the loss of drum cotps alumni fans. I think the Cadets, etc., should follow their dreams and fulfill every creative whim of their artistic staffs. More power to them.

Even though this process would mean the loss of some fabled names, it could lead to the revival of other similarly influential drum corps organizations.

After that (transition of current DCI organizations) it may be possible for a new era of drum and bugle corps to emerge. Smaller corps, less cost, g horns (more bang for the buck), more corps, more local and regional competition. If the audience comes to expect smaller organizations there may be a future for brass/percussion music yet.

Edited May 27, 2013 by pearlsnaredrummer77

[MikeD]

The high school bands of today that are competitive aren't analogous to the small corps of our day:

(1) A school band can become non-competitive at the sole discretion of the director, in some cases.

(2) In other cases, the HS band is at the service of the football team first. Any provision for a competitive marching program is well down the list of priorities.

(3) Often, I hear from kids that they don't want any more to do with their school than they have to. Representing the school by marching in the band is a total non-starter for those kids.

I guess I would like some acknowledgement that it isn't just a matter of saying "Kids don't need and wouldn't use the Class A corps." Some of them do, and some of them would, and it makes me sad that they aren't around.

1) A small local corps would go belly up when the director decided enough was enough.

2) Not sure how that is relevant to whether or not a competitive band has taken the place of small local corps. There are many competitive bands that skip football games to attend a competition. I know of some that don't attend any away games at all, actually.

3) And I know of many kids who love to march and compete in their HS programs.

As for overall numbers...in 1971 there were, according to posts here and in RAMD, 440 competitive corps. Today there are, from other postings I've seen, over 4,000 bands that compete at some level. The numbers of kids who march and compete today versus then is not even comparable.

NONE of that means that should not be Open class corps for those who want that experience, but it does help explain in some ways why there are not more of them around.

[TRacer]

I've been giving this a lot of thought lately as not long ago I received an email notice regarding the Corps at the Crest shows that take place in our area in late June, and I deleted it without even reading it. Reason: no interest.

I've been a fan & participant since the late 70's, and attending all the So Cal shows was a yearly event for me along with making the trip to Northern Cal for the shows up there. I've done a lot of travel to out of state shows such as DATR, including Allentown in 2011 where to me the highlight was Crown and Troopers. If I'm not at Finals, I'm at the theater simulcast.

Then I went to the Walnut CA show last year, and-- please bear with me on this, and no offense to any BD FMMs--- BD '12 with its overwhelming WGI presence completely turned me off to the direction of the activity. I still teach and judge, and despite my best effort to remain objective the phrase "last straw" started to creep into my lexicon. Yes, the performers were excellent blah blah blah the usual BD '12 writing & performing to the sheets disclaimers blah, but BD had me thinking that the show host had over charged for admission, and I was surprised at my own cynicism. Times were different then, but I wondered how, for example, SCV would have done at Finals walking up to uniform racks and hangars to change pants or uniforms for all to see rather than doing it on the run through an 8-yard tunnel.

I try to remain enthusiastic & upbeat because my son is entering marching eligibilty age but a LOT of wind has been taken out of my DC sails, so much so I'm rethinking my participation in a big 50th anniversary alumni gig coming up.

Edited May 28, 2013 by TRacer

[DreaminMello]

I've been giving this a lot of thought lately as not long ago I received an email notice regarding the Corps at the Crest shows that take place in our area in late June, and I deleted it without even reading it. Reason: no interest.

I've been a fan & participant since the late 70's, and attending all the So Cal shows was a yearly event for me along with making the trip to Northern Cal for the shows up there. I've done a lot of travel to out of state shows such as DATR, including Allentown in 2011 where to me the highlight was Crown and Troopers. If I'm not at Finals, I'm at the theater simulcast.

Then I went to the Walnut CA show last year, and-- please bear with me on this, and no offense to any BD FMMs--- BD '12 with its overwhelming WGI presence completely turned me off to the direction of the activity. I still teach and judge, and despite my best effort to remain objective the phrase "last straw" started to creep into my lexicon. Yes, the performers were excellent blah blah blah the usual BD '12 writing & performing to the sheets disclaimers blah, but BD had me thinking that the show host had over charged for admission, and I was surprised at my own cynicism. Times were different then, but I wondered how, for example, SCV would have done at Finals walking up to uniform racks and hangars to change pants or uniforms for all to see rather than doing it on the run through an 8-yard tunnel.

I try to remain enthusiastic & upbeat because my son is entering marching eligibilty age but a LOT of wind has been taken out of my DC sails, so much so I'm rethinking my participation in a big 50th anniversary alumni gig coming up.

TRacer:

There are many corps in the SoCal area, and please don't think all corps perform eclectic shows to just please the judges! Even better, you and your son can participate together in all-age corps!!!! If you went to Walnut etc last year, there was a very entertaining all-age corps who performed a Star Trek show, and had a BLAST!! (Dream) SCV Cadets went old school and Gold and Impulse were still entertaining as well.... don't base the Drum Corps world on just one corps. Hope to see you this year at our California competitions

[pearlsnaredrummer77]

TRacer:

There are many corps in the SoCal area, and please don't think all corps perform eclectic shows to just please the judges! Even better, you and your son can participate together in all-age corps!!!! If you went to Walnut etc last year, there was a very entertaining all-age corps who performed a Star Trek show, and had a BLAST!! (Dream) SCV Cadets went old school and Gold and Impulse were still entertaining as well.... don't base the Drum Corps world on just one corps. Hope to see you this year at our California competitions

I lost interest in DCI a few years back: too pretentious, too much marching band elements, electronics-just plain boring. I do still attend DCA shows because you still see a mix of large and small corps. Alumni and parade corps are often in exhibition. Also SDCA is around. So there are alternatives to DCI.