Blue Devils 2013

[euphplayer07]

What about the one point jump in visual performance for Phantom between semis and finals? That's what put them at number 1.

quote name='perc2100' timestamp='1369179368' post='3262049']

"i'm not trying to slam Phantom...but Phantom winning in 2008 can pretty much come down to Phantom getting lucky" :blink:/>/>/>

Yes, I'm sure no one from Phantom 2008 or Phantom 2008's fans (which, FWIW, I'm not really one of) can 100% see that you are totally not trying to slam them by implicating that their Championship accomplishment had little/nothing to do with their talent and more to do with luck from BD's misfortune

Of course, anyone with 30 seconds to kill on Google (or a great memory) can do a quick search to see what the Semi Final recaps said:

* Phantom won GE music by almost .5 to Blue Devils (who were 4th in GE music), winning GE overall by a few tenths.

* Phantom won Music Ensemble by .5 (BD in 4th), and percussion by .7 (to BD's 5th), thus winning overall Music by .4 (to BD's 3rd thanks to their awesome brass line).

(also, FWIW BD was 5th in percussion at Quarters, 4th in Music Ensemble, & 3rd in overall Music - basically Phantom wasn't "Lucky" that BD had an off night percussion wise, BD apparently had at least three poor percussion runs all of Finals week)

In fact, looking at the Semifinals recap, one could possibly make the argument that Blue Devils were lucky to win. They received they scored perfect 20's on 2/3 Vis sheets, and 1/2 GE Vis sheets. Had they even scored 18's instead of perfect 20's (i.e. .1 less on both sides of each 'perfect 20' sheet) Phantom would've squeaked out the win at Semis as well.

Of course, numbers analysis takes away from the performance factor, and BD was pretty incredible in 2008 visually (just as Phantom was incredible musically). I think discounting talent & great performing is a disservice to both groups

Edited May 22, 2013 by euphplayer07

[Stu]

Yes, it had nothing at all to do with a marvelous performance by a wonderful group of young people.

Good grief Mike D; of course it was a marvelous performance by a wonderful group of young people. But the scoring, the competitive outcome, the placement, was shear 'subjective opinion' by a group of adults not 'objective performance' by the youth.

[MikeD]

Good grief Mike D; of course it was a marvelous performance by a wonderful group of young people. But the scoring, the competitive outcome, the placement, was shear 'subjective opinion' by a group of adults not 'objective performance' by the youth.

OK...just like drum corps has always been. You made no mention of the corps performance itself, so how is anyone to understand the 'of course' part?

[perc2100]

their show was the best GE. That is why they won. They were really ON.

You would think so, but not really. If I remember Phantom won overall GE by .05, taking Music Effect by .35 while Blue Devils won Visual Effect by .3

Phantom really did win in 2008 because of music. They were on, for sure, and you're correct that they technically won GE. 2008 really was as close to two equal corps as you could get on Finals night w/out a dreadful tie.

[perc2100]

What about the one point jump in visual performance for Phantom between semis and finals? That's what put them at number 1.

There was a huge jump from semis-finals in Vis Performance, but that jump in spread was largely negated by Phantom's guard score, which dropped quite a bit spread-wise from Semis to Finals (though not a full point).

I had forgotten about the Vis. Performance score, thanks for reminding. I didn't see both shows so I can't say if Phantom maybe sucked visually on Friday but turned in on Sat, had some major 'malfunction' in Semis that was fixed for Finals, etc.

It's weird how much I relish analyzing recaps and such now. I HATEDmath in school, and was not good at statistics in college but I really enjoy using statistics for analyzing recaps

[Michael Boo]

So, now that the 2013 season is over and behind us so that we can start analyzing how it went, what did everyone here think of programs and the outcome?

[perc2100]

So, now that the 2013 season is over and behind us so that we can start analyzing how it went, what did everyone here think of programs and the outcome? :rolleyes:/>

I HATED IT!!!

(I thought you were going to lecture us on debating minutia from a drum corps season of 5 years ago...)

[Jeff Ream]

Well this might bother a lot of people...but I'll say it anyway....so in 2008, BD's percussion had an unusually rough time the night of finals......that being said.......Phantom winning by the amount of .025.....can pretty much come down to Phantom getting lucky......I liked both Phantom and BD in 2008...so i'm not trying to slam Phantom........but BD's perc. performance was kind of a fortunate thing for Phantom.......if BD had a normal run that night Phantom would have been 2nd.

not disagreeing with any of that, tho I thought BD's percussion was over rated a week before at Allentown.

But...#### drummers....:tongue:/> they judged the show of the day

[Stu]

OK...just like drum corps has always been. You made no mention of the corps performance itself, so how is anyone to understand the 'of course' part?

No need to mention it within the context of judging. Why? Because by definition of the activity itself, every drum corps provides marvelous performances by wonderful groups of young people; unless, of course, you want to say that Scouts, Crossmen, Jersey Surf, et al did not provide marvelous performances by wonderful groups of young people. So, the judging of those marvelous performances by wonderful groups of young people is mere opinion; educated opinion yes, but still opinion nonetheless.

[flammaster]

Pecan praline waffles sound real good about now!