Blue Devils 2013

[jplattSCV]

So a theatre piece that said it was "about minimalism", but was presented with 120 performers on stage, multiple costume changes, a 21 piece crew in the orchestra pit, lavish dance numbers, and a lighting plot that required the installation of 144 new dimmer packs in the theatre could still be considered a thematic success?

Saying that you're "about" an artistic concept, while then presenting work that is the complete and total OPPOSITE of that concept, is a failure, artistically. BD won last year, properly, because they played and moved better than anyone else out there. But the program design was nothing I'd show anyone in the outside world who actually knows anything about Dadaism or early 20th century artistic movements, simply because it appropriated names in the effort to lend itself significance. From that standpoint, it was more Waiting for Guffman than Travesties (which does a much better job of inserting genuinely Dadaist ideas into a non-Dadaist piece of work).

This argument reminds me of a couple of decades worth of arguments I have had about Alannis Morrisette and the song "Ironic", where nothing in the song is actually ironic. That then ironically renders the song itself ironic. Which, I guess accidentally makes her a genius. Devils attempted one thing and executed the opposite, and yet still managed to make achieve wonderful success.

I don't know if I had the same comparison in my head to Waiting For Guffman or if your comparison strikes so naturally true to me that it just makes me THINK i thought out of it myself or not...but it is hilariously accurate to me. Last year's Blue Devils were great despite these conceptual flaws.

[Slingerland]

Last year's Blue Devils were great despite these conceptual flaws.

Which, I suppose, is the takeaway from the discussion. It failed as a show that said anything interesting, but succeeded where it counted.

[BRASSO]

Which, I suppose, is the takeaway from the discussion. It failed as a show that said anything interesting, but succeeded where it counted.

The irony in all this is that Corps should adopt more themes filled with a sense of loss and confusion, if the goal is to win. This way, if a judge is completely confused and totally lost at the end of the performance, then that judge seems almost compelled to provide the GE Show Design with its Theme that its attempting to evoke with its emotions, a very high score.

Oh the irony of it all.

Edited May 28, 2013 by BRASSO

[perc2100]

Someone posted on here awhile back that the Blue Devils show designers set out to ( his word ) "offend " the audience last season and that the poster got a kick out of the fact that they po'd many in the crowd. Now I have no idea if this is accurate or not, but assume it was for the sake of discussion. If the BD Design Staff set out to offend the audiences, then why should BD supporters be concerned if some in the audiences think the show was horse bleep ? Wasn't this allegedly what the intent was all along for many in the audience ? or at least according to some BD supporters ? If a show designer does not care about what an audience might think in its design stage, then why does he or she care what it thinks in its delivery stage ? I don't get that. I really don't. If a show was designed to win with judges, and did so, then why do some of the BD supporters care if many in the audience think the show was unappealing horse bleep ? ( I think the show was ok, not horse bleep, but not in my top 10 favorite shows from last season... but why should BD supporters care what I or others think of their show from last season ? )

I personally don't care (though it does get tiresome reading the same tired, goofy arguments from non-fans). It is interesting and perplexing, however, reading thoughts from folks who seemingly think every single drum corps should be a crowd-rousing/pleasing affair. It's interesting the dichotomy on display, when similar people might also complain that all shows are designed the same and they wish more corps would be totally unique in their design, yet they should all be crowd pleasing?

But seriously, I've NEVER cared if people shared my tastes. I married a woman who has pretty radically different than my own. I like what I like and could care less who agrees, including DCI judges who may disagree with whom I think should be winning.

[perc2100]

Because you're asking patrons to pay $45-$55 for center stand tickets, and presenting them shows that they don't generally feel entertained by is a poor way to get this group to either expand or return? Same reason Barnum and Bailey doesn't put a ballet in the middle of the program.

Mike

I get that, but I think a drum corps show would be vapid and boring if everyone did crowd pleasing shows. I think if you look at the show rep. for Finals last year, there is generally a pretty wide-range of show styles: we don't need 12 Christmas shows, or Vegas pops charts, or even "mainstream" classical fare like Copland or Holst. It's great that we have those more fan-friendly type shows AS WELL AS the more obscure and different like Dada stuff, or Turandot (while popularish, still an opera that the average person on the street is unlikely to be familiar with).

IMO one of the things that makes drum corps unique is its vast array of styles and themes presented: arguably drum corps shows have more varying themes and styles than most/any other musical entertainment evening. There is nothing wrong with the strange and unusual, and looking at the reps from corps in 2012 Finals it's a pretty diverse lineup stylistically

[perc2100]

Do you realize that you appear to care WAY more about what the audience thinks of the BD 2012 show and show theme than did the BD Show Designers ever did themselves regarding what the national audience would think of the show and its show theme ?

Nah; I'm more trying to convey the ideas of Blue Devils show to perhaps the naive who don't care to think much about it on their own. I could care less what you, or anyone else thinks about the show (and I do think it's disingenuous of you to stipulate that BD Show Designers don't care what audiences thought of their show - that's a bold assumption that I would bet is mostly wrong, especially in context of my post you quoted), to be honest. Just making conversation on a quite Tuesday morning...

[Plan9]

I get that, but I think a drum corps show would be vapid and boring if everyone did crowd pleasing shows. I think if you look at the show rep. for Finals last year, there is generally a pretty wide-range of show styles: we don't need 12 Christmas shows, or Vegas pops charts, or even "mainstream" classical fare like Copland or Holst. It's great that we have those more fan-friendly type shows AS WELL AS the more obscure and different like Dada stuff, or Turandot (while popularish, still an opera that the average person on the street is unlikely to be familiar with).

IMO one of the things that makes drum corps unique is its vast array of styles and themes presented: arguably drum corps shows have more varying themes and styles than most/any other musical entertainment evening. There is nothing wrong with the strange and unusual, and looking at the reps from corps in 2012 Finals it's a pretty diverse lineup stylistically

There certainly isn't. But let's face it, the problem on DCP is not so much BD designs, as their winning with their designs. in short, if they had come in 5th or 6th with their recent winning shows 09,10,12....the reaction would have been much less vocal, perhaps no booing, and even a mild acceptance with comments like.. "very bold and different, good for them; not my cup of tea, but good try".....or from the darker bunch on DCP......."see, that's what you get for doing a whacky avant garde show, and good for the judges for agreeing with us". But Noooooooo ($ to Steve Martin), they win by big margins, and the two combined (design and winning) drive this DCP bunch positively apoplectic. Then carried to its paranoid conclusion...the real fear (voiced by some on here) is that other corps (in the quest to win) will follow BD's style, and there goes DCI to hell in a hand basket....but guess what, no one is following..... no one!

Oops, almost forgot my Kevlar Wall! :peek:/>

Edited May 28, 2013 by Plan9

[frachel]

So Blue Devils did the next best thing: how can we convey the broad ideals of Dadaism within the confines of competitive drum and bugle corps? I think they succeeded, as did the judges.

I don't think most drum corps fans see a show more than once or twice a year. I saw BD twice and still haven't the slightest idea what Dadaism is. If I need to see a show numerous times over the course of a season to 'get it', then to me that show failed. This isn't a highbrow activity, though the designers seem to think differently nowadays.

[Quad Aces]

There certainly isn't. But let's face it, the problem on DCP is not so much BD designs, as their winning with their designs. in short, if they had come in 5th or 6th with their recent winning shows 09,10,12....the reaction would have been much less vocal, perhaps no booing, and even a mild acceptance with comments like.. "very bold and different, good for them; not my cup of tea, but good try".....or from the darker bunch on DCP......."see, that's what you get for doing a whacky avant garde show, and good for the judges for agreeing with us". But Noooooooo ($ to Steve Martin), they win by big margins, and the two combined (design and winning) drive this DCP bunch positively apoplectic. Then carried to its paranoid conclusion...the real fear (voiced by some on here) is that other corps (in the quest to win) will follow BD's style, and there goes DCI to hell in a hand basket....but guess what, no one is following..... no one!

Oops, almost forgot my Kevlar Wall! :peek:/>/>

I understand what you're saying, and I think it is an interesting point to make. Personally, though, for me the difference isn't that BD won with that show last year and the comparison to the other corps - it's the comparison to themselves and their own history and style that they created for themselves. No more shows filled with in your face jazz, just shows filled with attempts of the design staff to show other people how clever they can be.

[Plan9]

I understand what you're saying, and I think it is an interesting point to make. Personally, though, for me the difference isn't that BD won with that show last year and the comparison to the other corps - it's the comparison to themselves and their own history and style that they created for themselves. No more shows filled with in your face jazz, just shows filled with attempts of the design staff to show other people how clever they can be.

Not fair at all! But I respect your opinion, jaded as it might be.

Two points (both IMO, of course):

1 - The BD designers are unafraid (well.. maybe a little in 08) to push the envelop of a flat field, limited to time and structure.....literally prying at the 2nd and 3rd dimensions both visually and musically. After 08 they were unfettered and reached farther and farther until 2011 when they let out some air for a number of reasons. (But 11 was all Cadets anyway....brilliant show.) Anyway, everyone sort of kissed and made up (except for the props) with BD, like, "welcome back.....we think?" and then like Lucy with her football they pulled it away at the last minute from poor old Charlie Brown with their 2012 DaDa show......utterly fearless. So, it's not about clever, it's about design exploration and stretching the capability of marching music and entertainment....like it or not.

2 - This stuff about "comparison to themselves and their own history"............translation: "I loved old Jazzy BD, with SOPs blowing their brains out and blah, blah, blah". I want them to always be like I remember them....I want them to suspend themselves in tree sap like Jurassic Park and re-animate themselves every year! How dare they not be themselves!" Well, the last time I looked no one had a copyright on jazzy designs, jammin' SOPs and kaleidoscopic drill. So, one could deduce that apparently no one else wants to do it either. In fact, the juxtaposition of BD being the ones to break out is perhaps the most perfect part of their departure from norm and tradition. Who else could be such a contrast? In short, that was then, this is now!

Edited May 28, 2013 by Plan9