It's a Blue Devils world...

[Plan9]

Cadets are just an amazing version of themselves this year with a bit less gunning and perhaps some more staging, same with Crown. I think Bluecoats and Boston took a big step into the BLUEZONE this year. We'll see how that works out..

I think this is correct. The thing that struck me the most about Cadets drill this year was "aggressive but doable" vs some other years when the physics of it just made it impossible to clean despite it's eye popping outcome. Great looking but a train wreck waiting to happen.... and sometimes it did.

[Plan9]

Best part about this whole discussion:

complete hijack of the thread

Unlike you PC Crown honks.....us BD honks love you to "try" to highjack our threads.....................fat chance!

[Tone Quality Matters]

Wishing BD a great show tonight

[IanKShields]

Thats simply nonsense. Since when does " deviation from the norm " always result in " progress " ?

History is replete of examples where deviation from the norm resulted in societal regression, not societal progress. Some changes indeed lead to progress. But the notion that " without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible", is frankly preposterous. The only thing we can say with certainty is that deviation from the norm consitutes what we can correctly call " change ". We can not call " deviation from the norm " consituting " progress " however. Sometimes there is progress, others times no progress. In fact, the deviation from the norm " can sometimes lead to regression, not progress. There are lots of people throughout history that unwittingly agreed to " change" and to eventually learn to " deviate from the norm " that was then established by their country's new rulers. Unfortunately however, millions wound up dead under their rulers " change " governance, and this situation can hardly be deemed human " progress " today in retrospect.

Oops there, Brasso -- basic logic error!

If you re-read the post, you'll see that the writer said "without deviation from the norm, there is no progress".

They did NOT say "deviation from the norm always results in progress".

It's just like saying you need liquid to make soup. Of course not all liquids can wind up as soup -- some liquids are deadly. But the right liquid is still a prerequisite if you do want soup.

(So glad I bought that book about Logic...lol...)

[IanKShields]

Drum Corps MM's national total participation rate numbers are in regression.

DCI Drum Corps shows numbers have been in regression.

Drum Corps audiences that nationally see DCI Corps live has been in regression.

The total numbers of DCI Corps has been in regression.

This notion that " only deviation from the norm can lead to progress " is of course inaccurate. We have had lots of " deviation from the norm " that has led to regression in many areas, not progress. I listed here but a few. Of course, we've can accurately list revolutionary changes in some aspects of the Drum Corps activity that one can accurately make a compelling case that " deviation from the norm " directly led to " progress " too. But progress can be attained in the absence of a fundamental " deviation from the norm". We have examples of this all around us. World Wide soccer is fundamentally pretty much the same sport it was 50 years ago. The absence of fundamental changes in this sport has not lead to regression in its international appeal to world wide audiences the last 50 years at all. The sport has had an explosion of growth in participants as well as the size of world wide audiences the last 50 years. We correctly call this soccer " progress " in terms of its appeal, despite the fact that in 50 years it has hardly had any " deviation from ( its soccer ) norm " in any respect whatsoever.

Best argument for being a grumpy stick-in-the-mud that I've read yet, but it's still an argument for being a grumpy stick-in-the-mud.

Edited July 5, 2013 by IanKShields

[IanKShields]

The only absolutes is that there are no absolutes, MikeD,

I utilized the example of soccer. The sport has not funamentally changed in 50 years. Its essentially the " same old soccer". The World Soccer Federation markets it better, and world wide migration throughout the world the last 50 years has helped its exposure and its participation rates, and its world wide numbers of both matches as well as the size of its world wide audiences. We can cite its " progress " here, despite the lack of any fundamental " deviations in the norm " of the sports fundamental constructs in these 50 years. As such, this notion that only through " a deviation from the norm.... (key phrase" FROM THE NORM" ) can progress take place " is just not an accurate assessment of a neccessary requirement for "progress" to take place. Soccer has not fundamentally deviated "from the norm " of soccer played 50 years ago at all. Despite this, has it had " progress " in the last 50 years ? You bet.

I'm certainly glad you've clarified your point, which is that Music should be no more restlessly creative or forward-looking than a foot-sport.

[IanKShields]

I took 2 adult aged people in my group to their first show last year at one of the shows. They said the experience for them was great. They loved the precision they said, and were amazed at what was out on the field. They loved the Jersey Surf and thought they should have beat everyone else in the show. They could not understand why they finished next to last in the show. I attempted to explain it to them, but I'm not sure I was entirely successful. They said they did not understand the themes, nor familiar with some of the music. They said to me that if these talented groups played more longer playing music instead of running around the field so much they'd be a bigger crowd in attendance. I thought it was beneficial for me to see how some fresh eyes and ears looked at this for the 1st time. This were adults with kids themselves ( not in Corps ). Maybe if these were high school aged youth and in H.S. Band and going to their first show they might have had a completely different take, I don't know.

Good point your guests made about "longer-playing" music -- and finally we hit the button about what's really irksome in today's drum corps activity. We've falsely made it into an argument about "innovation" vs "accessibility", when the problem is just basic musicality.

When visuals are driven by complete musical phrases, anyone can be swept along -- that is the power of Music. It doesn't matter how "modern" or "traditional" or "familiar" or "unfamiliar" it is; if the Music comes first, you're generally in good shape.

Where we are now, it often seems that Music is given the short end of the stick. We don't trust it enough to let it drive the visuals anymore, and we're too impatient to allow it to breathe (or even catch a breath).

There was a time when DCI could sell LP records of just the sound of the great corps performing, and we snapped them up because it was (and is) absolutely killer music -- it had continuity and normal musical development, and the energy was incredible as a result.

I don't care whether a corps is doing original compositions, Billy Joel, Stan Kenton, Stravinsky, or Edgar Varese. If the music is respected, played with natural continuity and flow, and isn't chopped to bits to complement rifle throws, it can work now and forever.

I...M...O.

[IanKShields]

So here's what kills me - you could say, "some people have different tastes from other people". But no, you wrap it up in a condescending tone, as if liking a melody line means you oppose "progress" . This seems a pretty common argument I read time and again. The whole - drum corps needs to "evolve" meme. Right now it's evolving into all the laughable things you get embarrassed by when you watch a garden variety marching band.

Who will step forward to say, the Emperor has no clothes????

He wasn't condescending. He was right. And it's not about liking melody -- it's about being incapable of hearing anything else.

This is not a difference in taste; this is an inability to taste the difference.

Edited July 5, 2013 by IanKShields

[tja273]

But it isn't all about the music...nor is it just about the marching. It is about a continuous shows consisting of both elements fused together. Neither element is more important than the other. Otherwise, why not just have the corps just park and blow the whole show. I think modern corps have done a much better job of making a complete show, rather than a bunch of songs people march to.

[IanKShields]

But it isn't all about the music...nor is it just about the marching. It is about a continuous shows consisting of both elements fused together. Neither element is more important than the other. Otherwise, why not just have the corps just park and blow the whole show. I think modern corps have done a much better job of making a complete show, rather than a bunch of songs people march to.

Absolutely! Almost.

Obviously, this is an activity -- oh ######, an ART FORM -- that has the potential to work like a complete fusion of Music and Dance, with the rather cool aspect of pretending to be a marching band as it does it. No argument there.

I would still contend that it is currently out-of-balance in its fusion, though. As a result of being overly chopped and gerrymandered to fit the visual elements, Music is not being allowed its greatest strength -- to bring continuity to the whole thing. Music is the back-of-the-brain stuff. It can carry a listener from indifference to eruptions of joy, just from building energy naturally. No visual element has this kind of continuous evocative power.

And this is not an insult to visual designers either -- even the most spectacular of Wagner opera stagings have always paled in comparison to the sounds coming from the orchestra pit, as stage designers have freely admitted.

To understand how to completely fuse the visual and the musical, a show designer has to respect how different the elements are in their effect, and then find the marriage that doesn't stifle either of their powers -- the spectacular visual ones, or the sublime musical ones.

In drum corps, I believe, this skill is mostly yet to arrive, but I can't wait to experience it when it finally does.