How does DCI scoring work?

[Jeff Ream]

what happens is this:

the Chief judge sits the panel downand goes over the lineup, and tells the judges where to put people. In the case of this year, then he goes to the percussion judge and informs him to dump Crown because " I want to see DCP explode".

:devil:/>

Seriously, each sheet has criteria in it that the judges are looking for....and match up the criteria in each of the 5 boxes to the performance....so if a corps meets the criteria in say mid box, then their number should fall towards the middle of the box 3 numbers. ( say 7.5). They will do that for both the content and performance box.

then, every corps that night that follows is compared back to corps 1 as the starting point, and also to everyone else they followed.

[lastknight]

They Dont.....move on

[wilme861]

If there is a problem with the scoring process, it's the fact that the corps are compared to each other. I think it should be more like a swim meet or gymnastics meet or something where you receive a score based on how you did with what you just did and not how well you did relative to this other corps.

The problem therein is how do you define what the difference between a 9.4 and a 9.2 in Percussion or any caption or sub-caption for that matter?

It also forces the judges to try to determine in their minds what a perfect score would be and then judge relative to that belief, which could be pretty difficult and still very subjective.

[skywhopper]

The problem with the system as it currently exists isn't in the interpretation of the scoring rules. It is in assigning a score to each show "in comparison to the other shows" BEFORE seeing ALL shows that is flawed. Not just in DCI, but in all judged competitions (WGI, BOA, local circuits).

In order to assess the shows in comparison to each other, no score could be assigned until EVERY show was complete. Imagine trying to recall how percussion lines 7, 19, and 26 performed relative to each other (and all others) after percussion line 36 finishes. Judging is already hard enough without adding that complication.

Good point, I agree. And yet, the sheets have that stated as part of the criteria. I'm not sure I believe the judges take the exact wording of the sheet too seriously though. They have an understanding of the caption they're judging in mind and they go with that.

[BigW]

The problem with the system as it currently exists isn't in the interpretation of the scoring rules. It is in assigning a score to each show "in comparison to the other shows" BEFORE seeing ALL shows that is flawed. Not just in DCI, but in all judged competitions (WGI, BOA, local circuits).

In order to assess the shows in comparison to each other, no score could be assigned until EVERY show was complete. Imagine trying to recall how percussion lines 7, 19, and 26 performed relative to each other (and all others) after percussion line 36 finishes. Judging is already hard enough without adding that complication.

Seemingly, what would "solve" the question is to allow the same score for multiple shows in a caption - if the caption deserves a 17.2 based on the criteria it gets a 17.2. If the next show deserves a 17.2 it gets a 17.2 as well (rather than the current requirement that it be given a different number).

Hold on- May be possible with a 5 corps contest. Memory can make that also a problem in a large contest. Also, if the boxes are used correctly, the competitors will be ranked and rated pretty much where they should be. Ever been in the hot seat and tried to remember what you saw an hour or three before and then fairly try and relate it at the end of the contest and THEN stick the numbers down? Not as easy a solution as is offered.

I would think a DCI level adjudicator can competently manage their numbers in such a way that if someone good is on early, they can deal with it in as fair and professional a manner as possible. If not, well, there are a lot of others out there they can call in for the future.

[ShortAndFast]

The problem with the system as it currently exists isn't in the interpretation of the scoring rules. It is in assigning a score to each show "in comparison to the other shows" BEFORE seeing ALL shows that is flawed. Not just in DCI, but in all judged competitions (WGI, BOA, local circuits).

In order to assess the shows in comparison to each other, no score could be assigned until EVERY show was complete. Imagine trying to recall how percussion lines 7, 19, and 26 performed relative to each other (and all others) after percussion line 36 finishes. Judging is already hard enough without adding that complication.

Seemingly, what would "solve" the question is to allow the same score for multiple shows in a caption - if the caption deserves a 17.2 based on the criteria it gets a 17.2. If the next show deserves a 17.2 it gets a 17.2 as well (rather than the current requirement that it be given a different number).

The judge is required to compare the corps to others in the show. So if they conclude 17.2 and then the next group is better, that group must receive at least a 17.3. The direct consequence is numbers management: the judge needs to have numbers available to give all the groups she has not yet heard.

This is not a trivial problem at big shows. The judges at prelims will need to fit 36 corps between roughly 11.0 and 19.5 - 86 distinct scores. There will absolutely be some groups who get pushed lower than the sheets suggest just so that there are numbers available for the later groups.

One solution would be to give the judge another decimal place. If he gives line A 17.20 and later thinks line B is just a hair better, he can give B 17.21. Generally his ability to put groups exactly where he thinks they fall and give meaningful spreads would be much higher

[Jeff Ream]

Hold on- May be possible with a 5 corps contest. Memory can make that also a problem in a large contest. Also, if the boxes are used correctly, the competitors will be ranked and rated pretty much where they should be. Ever been in the hot seat and tried to remember what you saw an hour or three before and then fairly try and relate it at the end of the contest and THEN stick the numbers down? Not as easy a solution as is offered.

I would think a DCI level adjudicator can competently manage their numbers in such a way that if someone good is on early, they can deal with it in as fair and professional a manner as possible. If not, well, there are a lot of others out there they can call in for the future.

Phantom's percussion in 2010...6th place corps, 19.7 in finals.

[oldschooldbc]

So I've been wondering... a lot of people on here talk about the influence of performance order on how corps are scored as well as the influence of who else is competing. I know the judges essentially use tape recorders and don't actually write down comments (am I wrong?) so I was wondering... do judges give a score right after a corps performs or do they listen back to their tapes at the end of the competition (before scores are announced) and then give the corps scores?

Here is a tape you can listen to, in order to get a good feel as to how this process works:

http://drumfunny.com/tag/doyle-gammill/

[eric49]

so sorry computer acting crazy

Edited August 8, 2013 by eric49

[eric49]

didn't mean to enter twice

Edited August 8, 2013 by eric49