Has MIM Buffalo damaged DCI's image in new and resurgent markets o

[sarnia sam]

But if there's souvie booths and warmups and entertainment outside the stadium, people will also want to see that. So you need to cut things off outside and have enough time to herd people into their seats before you start the show. Fact is, there's a huge benefit to having a show with one or two open class or lower-tier world class corps that not everyone is anxious to see, because it allows the crowd a lot more time to filter into the stadium. This was kind of a hidden benefit of the way shows are usually scheduled, but it wasn't something anyone was explicitly trying to do. But the TOC concept says those little corps are not worth even having at the show, and so not only do people not get to see the little corps, but they also miss a big corps or two. Doh.

I don't think that's very good logic. To begin with the booths and pre-show entertainment (not warm ups) happened inside the gates. Second, it's a terrible thing to assume people don't want to see the whole show even when a corps like Pioneer is in it. For the record, I want to see Pioneer (and other lower placing corps). My son marched in Pioneer last year, it's a good organization that cares about the kid's experience on tour and why wouldn't anyone want to support that by watching them perform.

I think it's an elitist attitude to think that shows other than TOC-G7 shows have a built in people mover because Jersey Surf is in the line up.

Poor planning is just plain and simple poor planning. My money, or anyone else's should not be treated so cavalierly - and d@mmit, I'm not bringing finger nail clippers to the show so don't ask, don't inspect, don't wand me, just let me enjoy the show. That's what I paid for.

Regards,

John

[skywhopper]

I don't think that's very good logic. To begin with the booths and pre-show entertainment (not warm ups) happened inside the gates.

Well, at some TOC shows those things are outside the ticket takers. At others they're inside. It's still mostly outside the seating area, so the pre-show music still keeps a lot of people in the souvie area longer than they might otherwise be.

Second, it's a terrible thing to assume people don't want to see the whole show even when a corps like Pioneer is in it. For the record, I want to see Pioneer (and other lower placing corps). My son marched in Pioneer last year, it's a good organization that cares about the kid's experience on tour and why wouldn't anyone want to support that by watching them perform.

I'm not bashing the lower tier corps. Personally, I always get there well before the show starts and watch every corps. However, the fact is that shows with lower tier corps up first rarely suffer the problem that's described by the OP.

But I'm not making assumptions either. A lot of people *do* skip Open Class corps, and non-finalist World Class corps. They gladly admit it on here, and it's easy enough to see at the events themselves. I think those people are nuts, but it's still true, and right or not, that behavior does improve the traffic situation just prior to the start of a non-TOC show.

I think it's an elitist attitude to think that shows other than TOC-G7 shows have a built in people mover because Jersey Surf is in the line up.

Sorry. Perhaps you just misunderstood me, because I'm not sure how what I said was elitist. I prefer DCI shows to have a mix of corps so more people are exposed to corps like Pioneer and Surf. The G7 apparently thinks differently. The fact that the TOC lineup causes traffic problems seems pretty indisputable, however, and has nothing whatsoever to do with how I personally feel about the corps.

Poor planning is just plain and simple poor planning. My money, or anyone else's should not be treated so cavalierly - and d@mmit, I'm not bringing finger nail clippers to the show so don't ask, don't inspect, don't wand me, just let me enjoy the show. That's what I paid for.

I definitely agree that the security is out of hand at most shows. But at other places, it's non-existent. I'm guessing it's up to the stadium management (who ultimately are going to get sued if someone brings a bomb or a gun into the place).

[sarnia sam]

Well, at some TOC shows those things are outside the ticket takers. At others they're inside. It's still mostly outside the seating area, so the pre-show music still keeps a lot of people in the souvie area longer than they might otherwise be.

I'm not bashing the lower tier corps. Personally, I always get there well before the show starts and watch every corps. However, the fact is that shows with lower tier corps up first rarely suffer the problem that's described by the OP.

But I'm not making assumptions either. A lot of people *do* skip Open Class corps, and non-finalist World Class corps. They gladly admit it on here, and it's easy enough to see at the events themselves. I think those people are nuts, but it's still true, and right or not, that behavior does improve the traffic situation just prior to the start of a non-TOC show.

Sorry. Perhaps you just misunderstood me, because I'm not sure how what I said was elitist. I prefer DCI shows to have a mix of corps so more people are exposed to corps like Pioneer and Surf. The G7 apparently thinks differently. The fact that the TOC lineup causes traffic problems seems pretty indisputable, however, and has nothing whatsoever to do with how I personally feel about the corps.

I definitely agree that the security is out of hand at most shows. But at other places, it's non-existent. I'm guessing it's up to the stadium management (who ultimately are going to get sued if someone brings a bomb or a gun into the place).

I get you are making a point in the first post with your additional comment, but it didn't come off that way. Glad to see you aren't of that type, so let's hope between the two of us we changed at least one person's view point of how to enjoy a show.

On the other hand, the chance of anyone ever bringing a bomb or gun (to use) into a show, or any place, is so low it's almost inconsequential. If anyone really thinks authorities aren't onto that sort of thing long before any news reporter catches wind of it, or someone actually tries, then they are delusional. When it does happen, which is rarely compared to other day to day threats like getting rear ended on the highway, then it's more likely because someone was lazy at their job, or pure luck on the part of the perpetrator. Foisting point of entry searches is just show meant to cow us, plain and simple, or an misguided line of thought that that's what has to be 'in this new age' fantasy.

Regards,

John

[perc2100]

I have been to other Buffalo shows and there were no problems like this. Also note that they haven't had concerts at RWS since 2001.

Good point/observation. Perhaps the Music in Motion folks had little/nothing to do with RWS employees not being great at their job...

Edited August 9, 2013 by perc2100

[sarnia sam]

Sorry for taking the topic somewhat astray, but I think some of my comments are relevant. We have to stand up to stupidity and not allow the shallow thinkers to control us.

On that tack, no matter how badly I want to see the cream of the crop at one show in Buffalo, or any show at that stadium - I live a fair distance away from the border, so deciding to go to A show (which is about what I get to do each year) is a pretty strong commitment on time and expense - I will not be going next year.

I will not be cheated out of my money in this manner again and I will not subject myself to intrusive examination for frivolous reasons.

When it gets corrected, I'll be back.

As an aside, I go to the DCA championships, which last year, and this, was at the Navy-Marine Memorial Stadium, a part of U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland. Never been searched or questioned, only made to feel welcome. There's a lesson in there somewhere I think.

I really wanted to see Cadets drum line, so I'm a bit p----d.

Regards,

John

[Quad Aces]

The lines to get in indeed were ridiculous. Same issue at the Rockford TOC in 2011.

Yeah, I was at that one - and it was pretty brutal. Luckily the Dekalb TOC was a lot better in this respect.

[Donny Drum Corps]

I got there early enough to have absolutely no problem. The people that had problems came later than me. I too was next to the tunnel, and heard some irate fans, but I thought the same thing...they should have got there earlier.

Go back a few years ago to the Rose Bowl if you really want to squawk. Those lines went on forever and the tunnels were long and packed with people.

DA

[Bandguy]

I don't think I'll be attending this event again if it's in the same venue. I got there pretty early (no big line getting through the gate). My issues came with security allowing people to walk through the aisles during a show. I went to a security person and said it was improper to allow people to move through during a performance. She told me it "was only the first group playing". Interesting to me it wasn't two minutes later I saw Dan Atcheson going UP the aisle during the Cadets performance. The aisle thing soon stopped after that.

The other issue was the "packed in" feeling in the concession/bathroom/exit area. That was downright SCARY. I watched several older folks who were having difficulties moving around to begin with (canes, walkers, etc.) get overwhelmed by people just trying to go somewhere. That was a source of pretty high anxiety for a lot of people, including me.

I think the people at Ralph Wilson Stadium didn't know what they were going to have to deal with. I don't know who dropped the ball on that one, but I believe there will be at a cost of future ticket sales.

[rp3ander]

This was indeed a very bad experience. I arrived early with my mother and met with a former drum student of mine who marched Cadets a few years ago. He and I went to watch the Cadets warm up while our families went inside. We saw some of the Cadets drum line warm-up and proceeded to the gate with plenty of time to spare (I have been coming to shows in Buffalo since 2000). We got in to see Cadets, but only by resorting to what essentially amounts to line jumping. I have never seen such long lines at any DCI event, including several world championships.

However, it was when I met my mother inside that the situation really began to annoy me. My mother has an Internal heart defibrillator, which means she is not supposed to be scanned by the electronic wands that security was using. She has an internationally recognized card for this, and at airports she is given a pat down instead. My mother attempted to give this card to security and in reply the woman said, "don't worry, I am a nurse" and proceeded to screen her. I am not sure what that is supposed to mean, possibly "if something goes wrong I can resuscitate you." I was enraged by this, and would have given this woman a piece of my mind had I been present to see it.

Whether this is the fault of DCI, Ralph Wilson stadium, or the hired security firm, it was a terrible experience and likely the last dollars DCI will get from our family.

[13strokeroll]

I got there early enough to have absolutely no problem. The people that had problems came later than me. I too was next to the tunnel, and heard some irate fans, but I thought the same thing...they should have got there earlier.

Go back a few years ago to the Rose Bowl if you really want to squawk. Those lines went on forever and the tunnels were long and packed with people.

DA

I think 45 minutes early qualifies as reasonably timely.