Crown 2011 vs. Cadets 2007

[Moz]

Cadets 2007 concept was driven by the vocal whereas Crown 2013 the vocal was an integral part of the show but not the driving force of the concept

[rancidrolla]

Anyone remember "Its a beat generation!", "freeeeeddooomm!", and all that other stuff from crowns 04 show? Pretty darn cringeworthy at times.

[Moz]

I agree. My friend who was in the corps that year was the one who got to say "alright, let's do something with nooooo voice," and the crowd gave a gigantic round of applause. It's interesting to watch the evolution of the activity.

We were there that year and they changed that line for semi finals after copping a load of flack at quarters (I think they changed it to "OK let's take it from the trumpet solo" ?!) - but to give GH credit they put it back in for finals!

Edited August 11, 2013 by Moz

[rancidrolla]

Compared to cadets 07, I think the crown kids voice is allot easier on the ears, pleasant even, it makes me almost not care that hes talking through the ballad.

Edited August 11, 2013 by rancidrolla

[acolli17]

Do you mean Crown 2013? Not 2011?

Wasn't sure.

It was much better for Crown this year because they found an appropriate place to use narration. Only a few lines when you listen closely. The other stuff was singing or harmonized counting. They made sure their brass and drums CAME FIRST. The other stuff was woven in carefully, with only a pinch of narration. You never walked out of a Crown performance thinking I didn't hear enough brass or drums.

With Cadets in 2006, 2007, and 2008 you did. You thought, why do I care about this story, why are they talking, and how did that help the show? You also thought "boy that made me feel weird."

I told a friend of mine that Crown winning with a little narration in their show (and some vocalizations) will peak GH's interest and I fear what that might bring. His corps has been SUCH an AMAZING crowd-pleasing group and a flat-out performance monster from 2009 to now. I don't want them to lose sight of that. What they are doing is working, and their total music ensemble this year (brass, drums, analysis) was just FABULOUS!! Best overall music ensemble on the field.

2013, yes. I was too worried people would hate me to get the year right, I suppose.

[acolli17]

The counting in Crown's show was very cool. The sappy narration in the ballad was one of the most cheesy and tacky things I have ever seen in a drum corps show.

In the original Einstein work, it's really effective. It's a bus driver who's driving at the end of a night, assumedly of chaos. Since a lot of the opera surrounds the invention of the nuclear bomb, and Einstein's unease in helping produce it, the juxtaposition of the bus driver's story is really cool, because of how peaceful and simple it is. This was my worry when they announced their intention of using the source material back in the Winter, that to take a five-hour production, and express it's sentiments in twelve minutes would be too great of a task. I do, however, think they did it better than I ever could have imagined. But in the play, it's so surreal to go from (at that point in time) four-ish hours of chaotic, explosive music to a simple story of love, and it's a very incredible moment.

[Cleveland1]

Anyone remember "Its a beat generation!", "freeeeeddooomm!", and all that other stuff from crowns 04 show? Pretty darn cringeworthy at times.

One of my least favorite shows.

To the OP.

I tend to be opposed to narration or voice over. Exceptions being pre show mood setting. But during the show i feel its a way to convey concepts or ideas with little effort. Did the our humble narrator sell it well for crown this season? Yes. I do not feel the show would have really suffered without it. But the staff felt otherwise. They won. So it goes.

The BAC voice over i was also meh about but it was not excessive and was using the source material from the poem which was nice. It wasnt done badly either and was in transitions.

BK is an example of how it can be annoying. I enjoyed their show but mlstly after i tuned out the voice over. She sounded so condescending. "Birds lay their nests in circles!" "The earth is round.... like....a ball!" And so on. And they repeat it. I get why they repeat it, doesnt mean i enjoy hearing it 3 times.

Academy is an example of one i like. It is cheezy and they knew it and they sold it and he did a good job at it. Did it get old after a few listens? Sure. But the first time i was laughing pretty hard, and i wasnt laughing because it was horrible. It was executed well.

Those were the major shows with any sort of voice over. Alart from short bits from madison and cavies i guess.

An example where they could have used voice over but did not because the designers chose to show us the story is spirit. Its a speakeasy and you felt like you were there. They didnt have to tell you.

The first time i heard crown's ballad narration and he said "... a story so old, it is the old old story...of love." I didnt expect the "of love" portion and thouht "this is dumb. This is the old old story?"

Oh well. Voice over happens. And like every other innovation in the activity it allows designers to have more freedom to fulfill their creative vision in ways that it was not possible before.

[NakedEye]

As others have said, it is all about the quality, both in writing and voice. I always thought narration had the potential for some really strong moments, perhaps using great poetry or segments of literature for effect, but the Cadets' early attempts had such elementary dialogue and questionable vocal talent that the backlash almost wiped the option to use it off the table. Their speaking parts always seemed incredibly intrusive to the flow of the program.

This year, Boston's use of it was the weak point of an otherwise great show, with the voice sounding amateurish and the lines seemingly lifted from a Very Special Episode of Blossom.

Crown's, though, PHENOMENAL. They finally used the power it has as a tool, by adding a third element beyond visual and music - meaning. The kids' inflection and delivery was absolutely perfect and the result produced a stronger moment than had there been just music or just voice alone. What would have been pretty music, and just pretty music, suddenly had meaning when it emphasized a story that people could latch onto. What was a few simple, and potentially corny sentences, became hugely more dramatic and emotional due to the power of the score accompanying them. A really great fusion of elements. I find it now hard to imagine one part without the other.

I hope other designers take note of WHY this worked!

Edited August 12, 2013 by NakedEye

[garfield]

Here's my take on it.

In 2007, the dialog in Cadets's show was done far too often, was written very poorly, performed haphazardly at best, and covered up way too much otherwise incredible music. The "rehearsal" stuff over Blue Shades was laughably bad.

On the other hand, Crown's use of dialog was limited to one piece in the show, was well written and immaculately performed. While I didn't particularly care for it's inclusion, especially over The Abyss, that kid performed the living crap out of that dialog. He took a really stupid story and made is all buy into it. Crown's attention to detain in that segment was what made it work.

I don't consider any of the counting stuff to be narration or dialog. It was music, and again, the attention to detail in it's construction and the amazing performance by the vocalists was the difference.

100% agree.

"Everything MUST have an ending...

...except...

...my love...

...for you."

Just watch Denver (I think) to see how much emotion he put into those words. His face, his gestures - he believed those lines because they fit the meaning of the show so beautifully.

"THIS, I BELIEVE" was yelling at the crowd. That wording was to convince us of the feeling of the kids in the corps.

Crown's narration was completing a beautiful story by telling it in a beautiful way.

Different message and different impact completely.

Edited August 11, 2013 by garfield

[garfield]

As others have said, it is all about the quality, both in writing and voice. I always thought narration had the potential for some really strong moments, perhaps using great poetry or segments of literature for effect, but the Cadets' early attempts had such elementary dialogue and questionable vocal talent that the backlash almost wiped the option to use it off the table. Their speaking parts always seemed incredibly intrusive to the flow of the program.

This year, Boston's use of it was the weak point of an otherwise great show, with the voice sounding amateurish and the lines seemingly lifted from a Very Special Episode of Blossom.

Crown's, though, PHENOMENAL. They finally used the power it has as a tool, by adding a third element beyond visual and music - meaning. The kids' inflection and delivery was absolutely perfect and the result produced a stronger moment than had there been just music or just voice alone. What would have been pretty music, and just pretty music, suddenly had meaning when it emphasized a story that people could latch onto. What was a few simple, and potentially corny sentences, became hugely more dramatic and emotional due to the power of the score accompanying them. A really great fusion of elements. I find it now hard to image one part without the other.

I hope other designers take note of WHY this worked!

^^^This^^^