Someone Please Give Me A History Lesson

[BRASSO]

Would anyone out there (and I don't mean to age anyone that marched back in the '50s and '60s) like to educate me on what drum corps was like before DCI?

The posters here Chris, have added some good and accurate info for you to get a sense of what it was like. I might add just a few bullet points to that contribution:

.... Senior Corps were comprised of all male marchers, Guard included, in the

50's, and thru much of the 60's. Marchers were all over 21, and quite a few came out of

military service.

.....Junior Corps in the 50's were 21 and under male marchers in brass & percussion, mostly all male still in Guard, but some unit's Guards were beginning to utilize all females in Guard. More woman began to participate in brass & percussion in some

units, and in Guard in some units by the 60's.

..... most brass lines in the 50's and the 60's consisted of between 25 -36 marchers. A

large brass line was considered anything over 36-40. It was rare in the 50's, early

60's to see any brass line over 48.

..... drum lines generally consisted of 3 snare, 3 tenor in most Corps in the 50's. ( along with bass drums, and cymbal lines.) In

the 60's, juniors still tended to average 3 snare, 3 tenor, but Seniors were moving

toward larger lines of 4-5 snare, 4-5 tenor.

.... since females in the 50's and 60's were not marching in Senior Corps at all, and only

in Guards in only some Junior Corps by the 60's, female musicians could be found marching in the dozens

upon dozens of all female Drum Corps that competed throughout the US and Canada in

Junior Corps competition. In the 50's these all female Corps competed with the all male Corps and later the mixed

gender Corps. In the 60's, they began to develop their own all female division in

some circuits, and that trend continued into the 70's with the later development

of DCI

..... Senior Corps in the 50's and 60's were almost all sponsored by veterans groups.

Junior Corps were also sponsored in many cases by Veterans groups, however lots of

other Junior Corps were sponsored primarily by Church groups.

......in the 50's, and early 60's, most Junior Corps secured 90% or so of their marchers

from within their community, church parish. Senior Corps secured most of their

marchers also from within this small radius, but some came from a little further

away from the home base, than did the Juniors. The mid 60's saw Corps in both

Seniors and Juniors begin to expand much further away in bringing in their marchers.

...... Both Juniors and Senior Corps tended to compete locally in local circuits, and

on weekends. Both would generally go to 2-4 regional or national competitions each season

that would take them out of their local region for competition, usually to wherever the VFW or the AL held their annual Convention. There was no such

thing as national tours of Corps in the 50's. The first Corps to go on a national

tour per se were the Troopers from Caspar, Wyo who did so in the early 60's. This was primarily that there was

no local circuit, nor too many Corps near them to compete with for this Junior

Corps.

Anyway, thats a little more info on Drum & Bugle Corps of the 50's and then into

the 60's.

Edited August 16, 2013 by BRASSO

[MikeD]

John Sasso, after leaving the Queensmen in 1962 began what was lovingly called the "Long Island Conservatory of Music" with the Sunrisers during the '60s, bringing along such greats as the afore-mentioned Dorritie,

John was Garfield's arranger/instructor in 69/70..with Frank assisting at least in 70. Frank then wrote our entire brass show in 71, along with Glen Ridge HS band director Larry Schillings as his assistant. Larry was a former member of the Racine Scouts.

Drumlines were rudiment factories - Bobby Thompson had his imprint on many of the early DCI lines and hung out with his star pupil Dennis DeLucia as the Bridgeman drum beast evolved, never to be equaled.

Thompson's great BS lines were my faves growing up through the 60's. He tried very hard to get me to join BS after the 69 season, when I was going back and forth between BS and Garfield. I later did a lot of judging at indoor shows out on the Island, in the late 70's, and it seemed like Bobby taught all of the corps! :smile:/>

I really admired the drum guys like my instructor George Tuthill, who had a percussion degree from the Manhattan School of Music in Manhattan, and Gerry Shelmer from BAC and Sun. They were at the forefront of the more modern era that folks like Fred Sanford built on.

Great post Ray!!!

[Chris Cartwright]

It may be worth emphasizing that DCA was founded seven years before DCI was.

In the early years of DCA, was DCA bigger than the AL or VFW circuits?

[Chris Cartwright]

Also thanks so much to everyone that's contributed to this post! It's so fascinating to me. I just found some videos online of drum corps performances in the '60s. Although there are definitely the differences, the spirit of drum & bugle corps will always remain the same.

[BRASSO]

In the early years of DCA, was DCA bigger than the AL or VFW circuits?

Yes Chris, at the Senior Corps level, it was... This is because once the US Senior Drum Corps decided to form their own DCA circuit they quickly brought into their fold most of Senior Corps from Canada with them. There was a sizable contingent of Senior Corps from Canada that came as well. Also, the US Senior Corps that joined DCA in some cases still competed in the AL and VFW shows, both locally and nationally, but the focus was beginning to change from those Veterans competitions to their own DCA Senior Circuit shows, competitions, and Finals that was beginning to take on more cache in esteem as well as money to top placers.

I might add Chris, that in the 50's and the early 60's, it was the Senior Corps for the most part where the marching talent tended to be. Junior Corps were taught in many cases by the marchers in the Senior Corps. DCA was formed before DCI. When the handful of Directors in the Junior Corps decided to break away from the AL and the VFW circuits they collectively met with the DCA Board to learn how best to go about leaving and were given assistance in steps to take both legally and logistically and so forth. When DCI was formed, a few Corps still participated in both DCI and AL And VFW shows, but like the Seniors a few years before, the focus was beginning to rapidly shift in esteem away from the Veteran shows to the DCI shows.

Edited August 16, 2013 by BRASSO

[BRASSO]

Also thanks so much to everyone that's contributed to this post! It's so fascinating to me. I just found some videos online of drum corps performances in the '60s. Although there are definitely the differences, the spirit of drum & bugle corps will always remain the same.

You're quite welcome. I applaud your interest and curiosity, Chris. Some day someone will ask you what Drum Corps was like in this decade, and hopefully you can share your info with those of a curious mind then !

Edited August 16, 2013 by BRASSO

[ironlips]

The "military connection" above was evidenced mainly in a preshow inspection in a company front on the back sideline, #1 endzone.

Most corps had thrown off the military styled music by the early 50s with examples such as "The King and I" winning the VFW Legion in 1954 with Archer-Epler. Corps had strong individual identities which dictated their show styles.

After watching this year's Madison for instance you would love to hear them at the '59 VFW Championship playing "You'll Never Walk Alone", already their corps song for years. Generally strong brass line would run 40 - 50 horns. Drum lines would go 4 snares, 4 tenors, 3 cymbals + or -) and 4 bass drums. The pit consisted of a glockenspiel or concert bells mounted on a harness or sling. You'll hear those bells on the 59 Madison recording, doubling the soprano (trumpet0 melody.

Just a few arrangers dominated the musical scene, Senior and Junior. Truman Crawford's 1965 Royal Airs from Chicago were the Gold Standard prior to DCI. Troopers and Cavies came East in 1966 and showed us all how corps could move - we were thunderstruck. Troopers Drum Major Pete Emmons was one of the first Jr Drum Corps rock stars. Soon afterward a young man from St Lucy's in North NJ named Jimmy Russo had the same effect in the NE.

In the NYC area Hy Dreitzer earned a reputation as an all-time great. Next to him was his close friend Joe Genero. The two divided up the NYC CT area and virtually taught EVERYONE who was anyone, while others like Red Nichols put together charts for corps like the Bellmore Thunderbolts and Smithtown Freelances.

John Sasso, after leaving the Queensmen in 1962 began what was lovingly called the "Long Island Conservatory of Music" with the Sunrisers during the '60s, bringing along such greats as the afore-mentioned Dorritie, John "Screech" Arientano, one young Wayne Downey - you may have heard of him, and even more important taught the senior drum corps world that ensemble quality was the key to a successful hornline. He raised the bar further than anyone save (possibly) Tru Crawford.

Philadelphia had legends Bob Adair (and brother Don) opposed by their yang, Lee Wolf. The Philly South Jersey world was divided up into Reilly guys and Archie guys.

Drum guy Billy Kaufman and his sidekick Eric Landis brought out talent such as Thom Hannum George Hopkins, Dale Adair, Mark Thurston, and so many more while the DeLucia school was pumping out Tommy Igoe of big band fame, and more.

In the Senior Corps world George Rodriguez taught some incredible players and had them playing at Hawthorne or Gabarina Skyliners by the early 60s. Names like Tommy Martin, Bucky Swan, Harry Hazlewood, Donald Angelica, Frank Dorritie (although he was years younger than the others mentioned), Frank Deliberto, were as familiar to younger buglers as names like George Harrison, John Lennon, Roger Waters, Pete Townshend were to followers of Rock and Roll. We followed them to rehearsals, shows, sometimes to post competitions parties where everyone needed to be conscious of all the "groupies' " ages.

Sunriser (and Queensman) drummer Billy Cobham rocked the Universe on "Sing Sing Sing" before moving on to become arguably the best jazz drummer in the entire world.

I left out FH and bari players such as John Simpson, Billy Hightower, Riggie Laus, John Sasso.

People complained, and rightfully so, about the bugles - utter junk which occasionally got worse such as when DEG broke away from Getzen. Make your head hurt. If you played on a Smith horn in the early 70s you had the sense that they were embarrassed to put their real name on the instrument so named it like at a no-tell motel, the Mr and Mrs John Smith horn.

But the real players were tuning every note with a slip slide, and perfectly so. Even today grab a recording called "Portrait in Brass" from 1960 Skyliners and the solo work (I&E pieces) will leave you shaking your head. "You Made me Love YOU" played by Bucky Swan? You would have gladly forked over your money to hear Harry James play it not an iota better. The Fox Hunter? pristine triple tonguing throughout. I listened to John Simpson on a recording of "Rhapsody in Blue" (arranged by himself) just yesterday and felt as amazed as I did at the age of 12.

Was it better? To those of us who lived it or admired it it was. The individuality was incredible. Anyone who thinks that Bucky Swan couldn't cut lead trumpet at BD is kidding themselves - he could probably STILL make it better.

There were several really large corps and 1 billion tiny corps with max brass lines of around 30 players. Carl Sagan couldn't have counted them. We all did patriotic pieces called Color Presentations (by rule) but that was about it with respect to the military. There were as many (or at least there were some) folks opposed to the draft and to the war, pplus idiots like me who enlisted the day the SDS burned the flag at St Johns in 1970. We weren't a group of "Hitler Youth" masquerading as a bugle band. We had the same nuanced arguments as kids do now, maybe moreso as we spent zero time worrying about Justin Bieber or Jay Z. We had no cell phones but we carried jobs all summer. Many of us skipped our HS graduations to go to marching rehearsal.

The guard was initially a guard for the national colors. Somewhere along the way someone noticed that if you threw one of those big-### M1s and someone caught it, the crowd liked it - eventually it morphed into Holley Hawks.

Drumlines were rudiment factories - Bobby Thompson had his imprint on many of the early DCI lines and hung out with his star pupil Dennis DeLucia as the Bridgeman drum beast evolved, never to be equaled.

It was the best of times... it was the less best of times. We got drafted a lot, or enlisted. Bunches of guys never made it back to the activity - others never made it back period. One of my earliest heroes - Bill Gallagher from LI Sunrisers, a bass trombone major at Julliard when drafted) took a round to the head and suffered brain damage at Da Nang.

We were self-contained. All our friends were in our corps - we were each others' best men and maids of honor, and brides and grooms. We eventually chose corps friends while we split up our resources in divorce.

This is just the tip of the shiny melting part of the iceberg, guys - these were rich, golden times. Better or worse than now? No idea - you judge. But just the most fun you could ever experience. I've left out 90% or more of the good stuff. And some of it if you printed it, someone would have to kill you.

These Were the days, my friend...

Yes, they were. It was drum corps Camelot, literally, and the story should be told to inspire all future drum corps participants and fans. Steve Vickers' great labor of love, the two volume "A History of Drum and Bugle Corps"" is still in print and available from Drum Corps World, and the real literature of the era is in the music itself, much of it now re-released through the efforts of Glenn Kubacki for the Fleetwood catalog and Ken Mason via ""The Beat Goes On" series.

If you want the real stories, start with those resources.

Ray's essay above is brilliantly insightful as expected from a most talented guy who had a foot in both worlds and remains connected through his children who have their own accomplishments in contemporary corps and guard. That's just one of the reasons he will be inducted into the World Drum Corps Hall of Fame in Annapolis during DCA/Labor Day weekend, (not that he would ever mention that).

He will forgive me for correcting one point: "You Made Me Love You" (and "The Fox Hunters") comprised the Individual routine for the incomparable Tommy Martin, in my view the greatest of all buglers. Tom "Bucky" Swan put his stamp on many other solos, including a Carnegie Hall performance of "Desafinado", the wickedly chromatic Brazilian piece that was technically impossible to play on a single valve G/D bugle with a slip slide. That fact did nothing to stop him, however.

Ray is correct in equating these players to rock stars, and others would follow like Johnny "Grass" Ursbruch, Jeff Kievit, Bonnie Ott, Barbara Maroney, Jim Brady, and many more. To be sure, there are wonderful soloists in today's corps as well, though they are rarely given extended features and we don't hear their names announced. (We should.)

Perhaps some of them will match the achievements of those earlier stars...but they will never surpass them in our hearts. Remember, it was Camelot.

Edited August 16, 2013 by ironlips

[JimF-LowBari]

In the early years of DCA, was DCA bigger than the AL or VFW circuits?

Folks who know the era better can correct me but DCA was started almost like DCI was a few years later. With DCI some people were unhappy with the direction (IOW - lack of change) and how VFW was treating the Jr corps (see Tony S mentioned earlier in Rays post). With DCA a few years earlier some corps leaders were unhappy with the AL and started a new group.

Not sure about calling AL/VFW a circuit as I'm thinking a bunch of individual shows that were judged under AL/VFW rules. There were a bunch of local circuits for both Jr and Sr corps and think they mostly (if not totally) followed AL or VFW rules.

Two resources I just thought about:

Dicemans Senior corps history site: http://diceman-radio.com/SrCorps/

- has some early scores including AL, VFW and DCA

NanciDs history blog which has DC articles from ca 1961-1967: http://historical-drum-corps-publications.blogspot.com/

Edit: to answer the question (which I forgot): AL and VFW at that time had more corps competing at the their championships. But the AL/VFW Champs were actually a sideshow to the national convention. Thousands of vets getting together somewhere in the country and part of the activities was a corps show. And one which the corps did not get paid that well, especially if you didn't make Finals from what I've read.

Edited August 16, 2013 by JimF-LowBari

[Northern Thunder]

Steve Vickers' great labor of love, the two volume "A History of Drum and Bugle Corps"" is still in print and available from Drum Corps World,

Unfortunately volume one is completely sold out (for the second time) and it will not be reprinted.

[BRASSO]

Edit: to answer the question (which I forgot): AL and VFW at that time had more corps competing at the their championships.

The participation rates of Corps at AL and VFW Championships, even in the 50's, and prior to the formation of DCA, really was mostly determined by where and when the Veteran Groups held their National Conventions. Sometimes the Veteran groups held their National Coventions in the Northwest, for example Seattle, Wa., or Portland, Oregon. Because of that distance, many of the Midwest Corps, and most of the Eastern Junior and Senior Corps simply opted out of the National Championships there these years. Other years, the Veteran groups held their National Conventions as late as October. Here again, because of the lateness of the year, the Eastern and Midwest Corps oftentimes opted out as once Fall rolled around, it was hard for Corps in these colder climes regions to adequately practice outdoors in fields where it was now getting dark early and was getting cold practicing field show routines out of doors after dusk during the week.

For example, the 1960 American Legion National Convention was held on Oct. 16th in Miami and thats when the AL National Drum & Bugle Corps Championships were held. Some Corps went, but many did not. In the 50's, many of AL Conventions were in LA ( '50), Miami ( '51 ) LA again in '55, and LA again in '56. A Lot of the Midwest and Eastern Corps opted out. This was likewise true with the VFW Nationals that in the mid 50's were also held in Miami ( '57 ), and LA ( '59 ). However, in 1962, the VFW held their National Convention on August 14th in Minneapolis. Here we had lots of Junior and Senior Corps make it out to Minny from the VFW Drum & Bugle Corps Championships this year as it was more centrally located and was on a good date in August. However, the following year in '63, the VFW held their Convention in Seattle, and none of the Midwest, nor Eastern Drum Corps tops Corps went out there for that, and 2 years later in '65, the AL held their Convention out in Portland, Ore., and once again none of the Midwest, nor Eastern top Corps went out there for that at all either. DCA had more Corps at their '65 Championships in Milford, Ct. than did the AL National Drum & Bugle Corps Championships( Senior Corps Div. ) out in Portland, Oregon did. But in '65 ( Chicago ) and in '66 ( Jersey City, NJ) the VFW held their Conventions there, and at good dates before Labor Day too, and so as a result, both were chock full of Corps competing there.

Edited August 16, 2013 by BRASSO