I KNEW this was coming.

[kckempf]

Yeah, since they were all in one place and not spread out over Europe and out numbered..... </sarcasm>

And the guys with weapons (bunch of countries with armies) didn't do much better either for the first year or so.....

Well if that kills the thread so be it.... Having known people who lost family in the Holocaust it just bugs me when people point fingers and says what others should have done...

EDit: As my hazy memories come back, this question was asked of the survivor why her village didn't fight when the trucks came. She was too young at the time to have an real answer but she brought up the possibility that the village could have been raised and survivors of that shot as a way to discourage other resistance.

Nothing to do with Drum Corps except something to remember when we second guess people running things. Hindsight is 20/20 and foresight is blinder than me without my glasses.

There's also the factor that Jewish rights had already been restricted for many centuries in Europe. I'm not sure they were allowed access to weaponry even if they wanted to mount armed resistance. They certainly armed themselves well enough in the Levant.

[troon8]

So now we're discussing reasons that the Jewish population of Europe may or may not have had the capacity to resist the Nazis.

Just so we're clear how on topic this thread still is, Mods.

Edited August 26, 2013 by troon8

[corpsband]

So now we're discussing reasons that the Jewish population of Europe may or may not have had the capacity to resist the Nazis.

Just so we're clear how on topic this thread still is, Mods.

Zing !!

I haven't really figured out the why and how of thread moderation on DCP. Sometimes threads run off-topic for hundreds of messages. Some threads get closed but only after a certain number of bombs get posted. And some threads get snipped after the 2nd post.

[BRASSO]

Yours is a fair opinion to have, but it's not a universal one, and disagreement with it isn't necessarily an attempt to be politically correct.

I don't have any stats or data on whether or not my comments on this thread is a universally held opinion or not in the general population. I really don't know why its of importance one way or the other either. I 'd say that most of the tastes of Drum Corps show designers are by no means mainstream either. These shows don't have universal appeal either. We Know this. But so what ? What does this have to do with anything either when observed in the context of what I said above ? Also, I never suggested that anyone that might have a different view on this than mine was trying to be " politically correct " either. I also said about that anyone that disagreed with my comments on the inanimate object we refer to as a rifle was entiltrled to that opinion and that " its cool ". I just think that the added commentary by the Cadets spokesmen added to their sale of their toy rifles was silly, thats all. That said, I don't confuse this silliness and essential non issue with the more serious discussion that we probably should have ( but not on DCP ) regarding the entire spectrum of issues regarding the use of firearms, violence, family breakdowns, mental health issues, crime, incarceration, poverty, warfare, etc in our popular culture here, as well as throughout the world. This is summer camp Drum Corps. With brass, drums, and flags, and all manner of twirly things. Its not to be confused with the real world. Its all a break from the real world. Lets packnowledge that all these shows, and what they ALL use in the show are in the pretend world. If we understand this, then whatever is done in this pretend world with shows, costumes, makeup, music, movements, props, etc is really nothing to get all that worked up about. The Cadets were found to have acted silly with their commentary on their sale of equipment. So its silly. But so what ? I see no reason for people to get angry with what was said ( as the OP seems ) Its really no big deal, imo. We shouldn't get upset in the pretend world with something that is silly in this pretend world. Many outsiders think what we do in Drum Corps is ALL silly. But why should we care ? I don't care about that. So lets not go overboard here.

Edited August 26, 2013 by BRASSO

[GUARDLING]

I don't have any stats or data on whether or not my comments on this thread is a universally held opinion or not in the general population. I really don't know why its of importance one way or the other either. I 'd say that most of the tastes of Drum Corps show designers are by no means mainstream either. These shows don't have universal appeal either. We Know this. But so what ? What does this have to do with anything either when observed in the context of what I said above ? Also, I never suggested that anyone that might have a different view on this than mine was trying to be " politically correct " either. I also said about that anyone that disagreed with my comments on the inanimate object we refer to as a rifle was entiltrled to that opinion and that " its cool ". I just think that the added commentary by the Cadets spokesmen sadded to their sale of their toy rifles was silly, thats all. That said, I don't confuse this silliness and essential non issue with the more serious discussion that we probably should have ( but not on DCP ) regarding the entire spectrum of issues regarding the use of firearms, violence, family breakdowns, mental health issues, crime, incarceration, poverty, warfare, etc in our popular culture here, as well as throughout the world. This is summer camp Drum Corps. With brass, drums, and flags, and all manner of twirly things. Its not to be confused with the real world. Its all a break from the real world. Lets packnowledge that all these shows, and what they all use in the show are in the pretend world. If we understand this, then whatever is done in this pretend world with shows, costumes, makeup, music, movements, is really nothing to get all that worked up about. The Cadets were found to have acted silly with their commentary on their sale of equipment. So its silly. But so what ? Its really no big deal, imo

i think what they and others are saying sums it up in your last line "....cadets were found to have acted silly....................".by whom? you? and thats fine...but not universal

Edited August 26, 2013 by GUARDLING

[skywhopper]

The primarily pacifist Jews of Eastern Europe had few defensive rifles or firearms at all. So 6 million of them were rushed into cattle cars to be later murdered by their armed opponents. Thus, in my view a well armed " military preparedness " is more valuable toward maintaining peace, stability, defense, and order, than military unpreparedness and disarmament.

This is probably the most naive thing I've ever read about this topic. Please, stop.

[BRASSO]

i think what they and others are saying sums it up in your last line "....cadets were found to have acted silly....................".by whom? you? and thats fine...but not universal

Holy Mackeral... Are you saying that what posters say on here about anything at all that it is a universally held opinion ? You, nor me, speak for anyone else on here but for themselves. When you post on here, I evaluate what you stated on its merits alone, not on whether it has " universal acceptance" or not. We don't take a vote of national audieneces to determine if the commentary by the Cadets on their rifles is silly, inappropriate, appropriate, or whatever. When we review a Corps show, and if you say its a " silly show ", we don't jump in and tell you that this position is " not a universal " one. Perhaps some do, I'll acknowledge this, but who cares if its a " universal position " or not a " universal position ". The person is expressing their opinion. Period. My opinion was that the added commentary by the Cadets on one piece of their equipment ( but not its others ) was " silly ". Some it appear ( the OP for one ) don't consider it " silly " at all. They are taking it much more seriously it appears than I am. He's angry about it. I have no idea ( not particularly care ), if this anger is a " universal one " or not. I simply disagree with him... and others... thats it not worth being angry about, imo. I said above ( quote ) that it " brings me a chuckle ". I really don't know what else to tell you, other than what is expressed on here are people's opinions on the Cadets silly ( imo ) commentary on their sale of the equipment

Edited August 26, 2013 by BRASSO

[GUARDLING]

Holy Mackeral... Are you saying that what posters say on here about anything at all that it is a universally held opinion ? You, nor me, speak for anyone else on here but for themselves. When you post on here, I evaluate what you stated on its merits alone, not on whether it has " universal acceptance" or not. We don't take a vote of national audieneces to determine if the commentary by the Cadets on their rifles is silly, inappropriate, appropriate, or whatever. When we review a Corps show, and if you say its a " silly show ", we don't jump in and tell you that this position is " not a universal " one. Perhaps some do, I'll acknowledge this, but who cares if its a " universal position " or not a " universal position ". The person is expressing their opinion. Period. My opinion was that the added commentary by the Cadets on one piece of their equipment ( but not its others ) was " silly ". Some it appear ( the OP for one ) don't consider it " silly " at all. They are taking it much more seriously it appears than I am. He's angry about it. I have no idea ( not particularly care ), if this anger is a " universal one " or not. I simply disagree with him... and others... thats it not worth being angry about, imo

and thats fine and we agree ...then maybe just the wrong words were used when YOU said Cadtes were found to be silly or the statement....maybe you should have said YOU , in your opinion find cadets comment silly....thats different

and youre right about who cares ..certainly not cadtes or GH . Guards staffs will do as they want as like all sections.no matter what they are spinning . If schools are going to change the climate of this subject it will for sure filter to drum corps...no doubt of that..so we will see over the next few years.

Oh as to your 1st line....not at all..Whats said on here in no way represent any majority of the activity on any subject..ive been saying that for quite some time...lol....some frequent regualr posters sure think so though...

Edited August 26, 2013 by GUARDLING

[BRASSO]

and thats fine and we agree ...then maybe just the wrong words were used when YOU said Cadtes were found to be silly or the statement....maybe you should have said YOU , in your opinion find cadets comment silly....thats different

and youre right about who cares ..certainly not cadtes or GH . Guards staffs will do as they want as like all sections.no matter what they are spinning . If schools are going to change the climate of this subject it will for sure filter to drum corps...no doubt of that..so we will see over the next few years

You make the mistake however of asking me to comply in my remarks of the very thing you accuse me of. You just stated that the Cadets " don't care " what others think. You and I really don't know this for certain at all however. I have no idea if the Cadets that marched the Cadets in the past ( all the way back to WW2 ) " don't care " about the decision by the current Cadets, and its description commentary of its rifles. You are of course entitled to state that " in you opinion " the former Cadets " don't care" but without such feedback from the Cadets rather large alum community, you ( nor I ), really don't know this at all, now do we ? I think it was a silly commentary and thats because I'm not a member of the current Cadets, nor their alum community. Thats up to them to decide for themselves if they are onboard with this decision and with its description of the rifle this way. If they are ok with it, then thats cool too. In the REAL world, I envision more firearms being introduced into the schools with the goal of protection of children in the schools. I see no evidence at all that schools that have armed security in the schools, especially in the hundreds of inner city schools, are about to abandon the use of the firearm in the schools on the part of their armed security details with the heightened threats to their schools now. It matters not what I think about this.. nor GH... its the reality of where schools are moving, and unless its a suburban school somewhere, the prevailing climate, whether we like it or not, is for more armed security in schools, not less. Thats why what the Cadets are doing with their commentary on the use of wooden toy rifles in summer tour with their musical unit, in context, is really silly, imo. Its a non issue, with the Cadets, imo, except with perhaps the Alums there, and who knows, they all might be cool with this transformation of the Guard equipment with their former Corps too... who knows. The Cadets have had toy rifles and sabres in their Corps since the 30's. If they have decided to now eschew what they've used in Corps for close to 80 years, then thats their choice, and one way of the other, it won't change a single thing in any of the schools, nor do anything at all to curb war, nor curb violence, nor curb the bad guys. So its all pretty silly when you think about it, imo.

Edited August 26, 2013 by BRASSO

[GUARDLING]

You make the mistake however of asking me to comply in my remarks of the very thing you accuse me of. You just stated that the Cadets " don't care " what others think. You and I really don't know this for cetain at all. I have no idea if the Cadets that marched the Cadets in the past ( all the way back to WW2 ) " don't care " about the decision by the current Cadets, and its description commentary of its rifles. You are of course entitled to state that " in you opinion " the former Cadets " don't care" but without such feedback from the Cadets rather large alum community, you ( nor I ), really don't know this at all, now do we ? I think it was a silly commentary and thats becuse I'm not a member of the Cadets alum community. Thats up to them to decise for themselves if they are onboard with the this decision and with its description of the rifle this way. If they are ok with it, then thats cool too.

actually based on everthing you just said..YES I do think i have a better idea..( but still wont speak for others ) ....that aside you are saying the same thing YOU are doing..who found anything silly? you said that not others....oh forget it..like you said it doesnt matter..Ive been saying all along...who cares what George says or how he feels..thats fine for his corps and if others follow..well thats fine if its their corps ...if not great for them also

if schools have issues and some do..we will see what happens to drum corps in the long run

you also in your last line FINALLY said the word SILLY and then in your opinion...great !!! :smile:/>/>

Edited August 26, 2013 by GUARDLING