FINALS NIGHT

[Jeff Ream]

Well... this one I completely disagree with you on. A "Load more"? No not even close. I'll argue until the cows come home and the fat lady sings that Cabs had more content. Your eye line moves a lot more during their program, bouncing around the field in all areas because of the incredible variety that show had. In each moment, there was another concept taking place to strengthen the overall theme. I don't think Reading had that. Short of having sections move in front of the pit a few times during the show, there wasn't a whole lot of "Breaking through" that happened until the very end. But Cabs had an incredible seduction theme that took place and grew over the course of their entire program. Starting from the solo dancer in the beginning, to the color guard, the Tubas, Mellos, then the Baris,with their uniform change as they were seduced, than Drum line, all the way until the end... the whole temptress theme was very, very strong, even with the soloists and how they were used. I also didn't hear any type of musical demand from their hornline like Cabs had with all the runs and difficult musical passages, as well as the strong staging challenges lining those up in forms stretching across the entire field. Readings show was block form, open curve, block form, line, block form the entire show.

For those that were hard on the Cabs for what they claimed "minimal moving", no one had much to say about Reading standing still the last 50 seconds of their show 10 feet from the front seats. It's not a problem they did this as its an AMAZING effect moment and absolutely propels the crowd off their feet... but lets not be hypocritical here. Its a very smart design to gain a big reaction.

it's really when you come to the end of the day not who does the most, but who does the most the best. Both corps, and MBI had all kinds of different demands musically and visually, and all three hit the triad of effect multiples times. Looking at the recap, it's easy to see Bucs performance so moved the judges that it pushed the book numbers up.

[Fran Haring]

I think you've been watching a different set of shows all year. You were having this problem even back in mid July back in the Secaucus thread.

Now... be nice to VOR.

His entire world was shaken to its core this summer when the Bucs actually lost a show.

[kenweaver]

Well... this one I completely disagree with you on. A "Load more"? No not even close. I'll argue until the cows come home and the fat lady sings that Cabs had more content. Your eye line moves a lot more during their program, bouncing around the field in all areas because of the incredible variety that show had. In each moment, there was another concept taking place to strengthen the overall theme. I don't think Reading had that. Short of having sections move in front of the pit a few times during the show, there wasn't a whole lot of "Breaking through" that happened until the very end. But Cabs had an incredible seduction theme that took place and grew over the course of their entire program. Starting from the solo dancer in the beginning, to the color guard, the Tubas, Mellos, then the Baris,with their uniform change as they were seduced, than Drum line, all the way until the end... the whole temptress theme was very, very strong, even with the soloists and how they were used. I also didn't hear any type of musical demand from their hornline like Cabs had with all the runs and difficult musical passages, as well as the strong staging challenges lining those up in forms stretching across the entire field. Readings show was block form, open curve, block form, line, block form the entire show.

For those that were hard on the Cabs for what they claimed "minimal moving", no one had much to say about Reading standing still the last 50 seconds of their show 10 feet from the front seats. It's not a problem they did this as its an AMAZING effect moment and absolutely propels the crowd off their feet... but lets not be hypocritical here. Its a very smart design to gain a big reaction.

Wow, I must have seen a different show several times live and many more on the video than you did, as well.

I saw "Breaking On Through" in multiple ways. They broke through with different music and styles that they have not played before. I saw the original small boundary get broken and reshaped to expand and then finally they broke through the pit, the sideline and the decibel meters.

The theme was presented in several different ways and adding in the tune "Break On Through" was one of the simplest to read.

I also saw what looked like well over a hundred drill sets, as compared to not so many. That is content and if executed, that equals points.

I guess the Bucs should be glad that you are not a judge and that those who are, were able to see these differences. 9 out of 9 judges all saw it differently than you on that night.

Thanks for reading.

[littleBknown]

Wow, I must have seen a different show several times live and many more on the video than you did, as well.

I saw "Breaking On Through" in multiple ways. They broke through with different music and styles that they have not played before. I saw the original small boundary get broken and reshaped to expand and then finally they broke through the pit, the sideline and the decibel meters.

The theme was presented in several different ways and adding in the tune "Break On Through" was one of the simplest to read.

I also saw what looked like well over a hundred drill sets, as compared to not so many. That is content and if executed, that equals points.

I guess the Bucs should be glad that you are not a judge and that those who are, were able to see these differences. 9 out of 9 judges all saw it differently than you on that night.

Thanks for reading.

AMEN!!! there were plenty of examples of the "Break on Through" Theme...How about when the guard wrapped the hornline members in the pink cloth and then the hornline members broke through those!!!

or how about the ultimate example when the entire corps broke on through those numbers to come out on top...THAT is dedication to a theme!!!

[VOReason]

So I'm not seeing things?

[Kyle B]

Wow, I must have seen a different show several times live and many more on the video than you did, as well.

I saw "Breaking On Through" in multiple ways. They broke through with different music and styles that they have not played before. I saw the original small boundary get broken and reshaped to expand and then finally they broke through the pit, the sideline and the decibel meters.

The theme was presented in several different ways and adding in the tune "Break On Through" was one of the simplest to read.

I also saw what looked like well over a hundred drill sets, as compared to not so many. That is content and if executed, that equals points.

I guess the Bucs should be glad that you are not a judge and that those who are, were able to see these differences. 9 out of 9 judges all saw it differently than you on that night.

Thanks for reading.

Bucs had 176 drill sets from what I was told. Another close competitor had about 76.

But again, it's only impressive if you can pull it off, and that they did.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Kyle B

[androidx2]

Wow, I must have seen a different show several times live and many more on the video than you did, as well.

I saw "Breaking On Through" in multiple ways. They broke through with different music and styles that they have not played before. I saw the original small boundary get broken and reshaped to expand and then finally they broke through the pit, the sideline and the decibel meters.

The theme was presented in several different ways and adding in the tune "Break On Through" was one of the simplest to read.

I also saw what looked like well over a hundred drill sets, as compared to not so many. That is content and if executed, that equals points.

I guess the Bucs should be glad that you are not a judge and that those who are, were able to see these differences. 9 out of 9 judges all saw it differently than you on that night.

Thanks for reading.

Listen, I'm not here to try and convince two or three people to throw out all of their Bucs souvies and buy Cabs souvies. There is absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying their program. They had a hell of a show put together and they performed it very well on Sunday. If you scroll back a few pages, you'll see not only did I give them credit for their win, but admitted they were the better corps that night. Maybe the Bucs should be happy I'm not their judge, but the same goes for you and the Cabs. I'm not coming on here trying to argue the two programs, just peoples rationale and some of the silly comments. If what you wrote is what you took from their program, that is totally fine. I gave several specific examples about what Cabs did to support their theme and their show, and you gave several examples for Bucs. You helped prove my point. My initial post was regarding VOREASON saying Bucs had "A load more" content. My argument still stands. They didn't have a load more. They had exactly what they needed to support their show, just like Cabs. If I missed a few things, than that's just how I received it. I saw Bucs several times this year and still, even on Sunday, thought that the strength of their theme was weaker than in years past where you had no question what was going on. Conversely, in years past when the Cabs seemed to be just mashing a few classic Hawthorne titles together with no apparent theme, this year they had one of the strongest in the circuit. That was the basis for my whole discussion.

[VOReason]

Listen, I'm not here to try and convince two or three people to throw out all of their Bucs souvies and buy Cabs souvies. There is absolutely nothing wrong with enjoying their program. They had a hell of a show put together and they performed it very well on Sunday. If you scroll back a few pages, you'll see not only did I give them credit for their win, but admitted they were the better corps that night. Maybe the Bucs should be happy I'm not their judge, but the same goes for you and the Cabs. I'm not coming on here trying to argue the two programs, just peoples rationale and some of the silly comments. If what you wrote is what you took from their program, that is totally fine. I gave several specific examples about what Cabs did to support their theme and their show, and you gave several examples for Bucs. You helped prove my point. My initial post was regarding VOREASON saying Bucs had "A load more" content. My argument still stands. They didn't have a load more. They had exactly what they needed to support their show, just like Cabs. If I missed a few things, than that's just how I received it. I saw Bucs several times this year and still, even on Sunday, thought that the strength of their theme was weaker than in years past where you had no question what was going on. Conversely, in years past when the Cabs seemed to be just mashing a few classic Hawthorne titles together with no apparent theme, this year they had one of the strongest in the circuit. That was the basis for my whole discussion.

So iif you are admitting that Bucs were the better corps in Finals, why are you saying the Bucs should be happy you are not their judge? Isn't the best corps winning the result we all want to see? And BTW, saying the Bucs show has loads more content is not a silly comment. It is the truth.

Edited September 5, 2014 by VOReason

[androidx2]

So iif you are admitting that Bucs were the better corps in Finals, why are you saying the Bucs should be happy you are not their judge? Isn't the best corps winning the result we all want to see? And BTW, saying the Bucs show has loads more content is not a silly comment. It is the truth.

Because, while they may have won overall that night, they wouldn't have won my caption if I was on Visual Effect. And based on the scoring this year, other Visual Effect judges would side with me, as they mostly did all season. All but 1 as a matter of fact. Even on the panel Sunday night the Vis Effect judges didn't see the same show as one had Cabs up and one had Bucs. It wasn't 9 of 9. It was 8 of 9. Semantic argument, yes of course. The night before, no Vis Effect judge had Bucs up, it was a split between MBI and Cabs. All season long Cabs were winning Effect except for Scranton, and the same judge that put them down in Scranton, had them up by a BIG number in Prelims. So, I feel like I'm on the right side of the fence on this one. "But all season doesn't matter, only Sunday night matters". Yes this is true for scoring, but the design of the show isn't all that different from what we see in Wildwood, just tweaks and execution. Content is not 100% different. Between Prelims and Finals, maybe one change... if that.

This content conversation is something you and I could both have all the way to Wildwood 2015. If you really believe that Bucs had so much more content in their show, I'd love to see you post a head to head comparison of each impact-full moment as you see it... but you probably won't like the results in the end. I've studied both programs, as I have been a big Bucs fan in the past... this year, I just think was their weakest, show wise. Clearly, it was still strong enough to get the job done. At the end of the day though, both programs were entertaining. So it really doesn't matter who's had more content. What matters is that this year, DCA thrived with competition and the fans won. Its that fact alone that has me looking forward to 2015... That, and I want to see Fusion win their first DCA Open Class Championship.

Edited September 5, 2014 by androidx2

[androidx2]

Bucs had 176 drill sets from what I was told. Another close competitor had about 76.

But again, it's only impressive if you can pull it off, and that they did.

Most corps today are between 130-160 with subsets. 76 is very weak. I'd bet that info you have doesn't include subsets. I'm sure the number from Bucs does. Not an apples to apples comparison. Either way, the number of sets has little bearing on the judging. Only how they are utilized on the field.

Edited September 5, 2014 by androidx2