garfield Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 2 things. DCI IS the corps nothing different 2nd top corps, like it or not do draw more. All one has to do is look look the stands to see, ask an OC corps who they perform in front of, who runs to see what corps, who fills a parking lot more than some fill a stadium. NOW, of course I am talking top corps IAM NOT SAYING 1st place. I've been on tours for decades and its very easy to see. I dont see 1 or 2 shows a year , I see over a month at a time ., many shows and also see the behavior. There have been some here also who went from marching in an OC or lower WC corps to a top 5 or 10 and all confirmed what I am saying Now with that said I will say, and I've said this for years IF people want smaller, younger OC or bottom WC corps to make more of an impact ,STOP TALKING ABOUT IT and making excuses why the stands are empty and put you money where your mouth is ( not you in general ..lol) and show it with $$$$$$$. WGI finally got the this with the A class and that THIS WAS WHERE THEIR BREAD WAS BUTTERED. I don't think it's a question of whether or not more money will make more OC or lower-placing WC corps place higher, I think the question is whether or not they should have to place higher to be considered relevant to the activity or to the other corps. "IF", as you so aptly put it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I don't think it's a question of whether or not more money will make more OC or lower-placing WC corps place higher, I think the question is whether or not they should have to place higher to be considered relevant to the activity or to the other corps. "IF", as you so aptly put it. You see thats exactly what I am saying. First you have to define relevant. Relevant to what? I think all corps serve a purpose and are relevant to the activity in one form or another BUT do they bring to the table the same things? No, I do not think so. Does one have to place higher as you said to obtain relevance? Well that's my point . I think according to attendance when these corps are performing, and all the other reasons I mentioned it would suggest that no they are not as relevant in comparison to upper corps. Now I am not saying they aren't in actuality but IMO it does suggest this. My point was money is very much a part of this as well as placement but it can change if DCI and others saw an upward show of support by getting to those seats instead of filling the parking lots because the top 5 are warming up. I hear it all the time , many friends who are always moaning how lower corps aren't respected or OC but when asking well what shows did they like they either didn't get to the show early, were at dinner or a bar or in the lot . Well, that's when I say ahhh ok so now you professed the politically correct thing to say yet nothing to back it...JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I think the 150 rule makes it more static Also, the mandatory Regionals every weekend in the back half of the season slots corps and is super boring. In days of yore, corps could go weeks without meeting and anything could happen, perhaps an illusion but its faux drama is better than no drama !!! And parts of DCI are evil; we really need to accept that before anything will change. Some corps are working at the expense of other corps, let’s not kid ourselves Forgot to add, full time staffs parasitng and pimping kids for their livelihood will keep it the same. Too many adults making too much money, trying keep other corps out and their own wallets fat is a real ruiner More so when those Fagins set and dictate the rules that judge their success and income (see some corps are evil) When it was a passionate hobby it was a better product - super mega solie band is so dorkvilles it will never sell except to the dorks...and that is what he said i think the mandatory regionals have added some great intrique, especially as corps add in new endings, tweaks etc like that...just because you win San Antonio doesnt mean you in it all. Goo look at the history books...you'll see I'm right 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 You see thats exactly what I am saying. First you have to define relevant. Relevant to what? I think all corps serve a purpose and are relevant to the activity in one form or another BUT do they bring to the table the same things? No, I do not think so. Does one have to place higher as you said to obtain relevance? Well that's my point . I think according to attendance when these corps are performing, and all the other reasons I mentioned it would suggest that no they are not as relevant in comparison to upper corps. Now I am not saying they aren't in actuality but IMO it does suggest this. My point was money is very much a part of this as well as placement but it can change if DCI and others saw an upward show of support by getting to those seats instead of filling the parking lots because the top 5 are warming up. I hear it all the time , many friends who are always moaning how lower corps aren't respected or OC but when asking well what shows did they like they either didn't get to the show early, were at dinner or a bar or in the lot . Well, that's when I say ahhh ok so now you professed the politically correct thing to say yet nothing to back it...JMO Forgive me, but I can't exactly tell what your central point is here. I'd appreciate a clarification on your part. The corps that are performing when "everyone" is in the lot are not, at all, less relevant to the activity just because they don't draw people from the lot to the stands. This is a canard of the highest level, IMO. And it also shows lack of support for the corps on the field by DCI, IMO. If DCI limited access to warmups they would be defacto supporting all of the corps on the field. That DCI allows fans to witness warmups without requiring a ticket purchase takes money out of their own pockets! Which would a top-5 corps prefer: having witnesses to their warm ups or the revenue from ticket sales? Maybe you're saying DCI should implement such a rule to support the performing corps, or maybe you're saying that those corps don't deserve that support because they don't put BITS instead of in the lot. I really can't tell from your post. BTW, IMO money IS the at the center of this discussion, and is at the center of most discussions involving drum corps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Forgive me, but I can't exactly tell what your central point is here. I'd appreciate a clarification on your part. The corps that are performing when "everyone" is in the lot are not, at all, less relevant to the activity just because they don't draw people from the lot to the stands. This is a canard of the highest level, IMO. And it also shows lack of support for the corps on the field by DCI, IMO. If DCI limited access to warmups they would be defacto supporting all of the corps on the field. That DCI allows fans to witness warmups without requiring a ticket purchase takes money out of their own pockets! Which would a top-5 corps prefer: having witnesses to their warm ups or the revenue from ticket sales? Maybe you're saying DCI should implement such a rule to support the performing corps, or maybe you're saying that those corps don't deserve that support because they don't put BITS instead of in the lot. I really can't tell from your post. BTW, IMO money IS the at the center of this discussion, and is at the center of most discussions involving drum corps. I couldn't agree more. Personally, I've never found the attraction of driving all the way to a show location, just to skip one (or more) Corps performances for the sake of watching one of the "bigger boys" warming up. If I want to learn rehearsal warm-up techniques, I'll find a clinic. But maybe that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleran Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 randomize performance times instead of order of prior placement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 randomize performance times instead of order of prior placement? This was tried at a finals one year and panned by nearly everyone. There's one particular issue that makes this difficult at shows: If you randomize performances then all corps need to be at the stadium prior to the first step off. Then, you'd have to let each corps know their performance order and give each sufficient time to warm up. This will get particularly hard push-back from those corps who, by virtue of typically going on later or last, can spend an extra hour or two practicing before packing up to head to the show stadium. It is a vicious circle, IMO, that later-performing corps get extra practice time, which helps them score well, which allows them to perform later, which allows for more practice time. Not saying that your idea doesn't have merit, but handling the logistics of randomizing performances would be brand new. And the idea would be blackballed by those who, typically, go on later or last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleran Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) This was tried at a finals one year and panned by nearly everyone. There's one particular issue that makes this difficult at shows: If you randomize performances then all corps need to be at the stadium prior to the first step off. Then, you'd have to let each corps know their performance order and give each sufficient time to warm up. This will get particularly hard push-back from those corps who, by virtue of typically going on later or last, can spend an extra hour or two practicing before packing up to head to the show stadium. It is a vicious circle, IMO, that later-performing corps get extra practice time, which helps them score well, which allows them to perform later, which allows for more practice time. Not saying that your idea doesn't have merit, but handling the logistics of randomizing performances would be brand new. And the idea would be blackballed by those who, typically, go on later or last. Well, I don't mean it has to be randomized the day of the show ... performance order can be set far in advance. Just don't have the first half of the show be the lower corps, so everyone comes late/hangs in lot/etc. Start with Crown ... follow with Cascades ... then Cadets ... then Genesis ... then Troopers ... then Blue Devils ... then Pioneer ... then Spirit of Atlanta ... then finish with Blue Stars. And push back even harder against the corps that push back ... let them know it's about the integrity of the entire show, and all of DCI, not just the G7. Edited February 24, 2015 by Eleran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Well, I don't mean it has to be randomized the day of the show ... performance order can be set far in advance. Just don't have the first half of the show be the lower corps, so everyone comes late/hangs in lot/etc. Start with Crown ... follow with Cascades ... then Cadets ... then Genesis ... then Troopers ... then Blue Devils ... then Pioneer ... then Spirit of Atlanta ... then finish with Blue Stars. And push back even harder against the corps that push back ... let them know it's about the integrity of the entire show, and all of DCI, not just the G7. Couldn't you accomplish the same result by simply cloistering the warmups from fans? At the very least, sell a separate ticket to the warmup area. More money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleran Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 I don't think it would stop the following folks: "Well, the show kicks off at 6:00, but they won't get to the good corps until about 7:45, so let's plan on arriving at 7:30" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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