ajlisko Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 >>>Those companies/individuals are absolutely at risk. And no, an agreement with ASCAP/BMI is not the same as securing synch/mechyanical rights. Like we've said before, drum corps in general has been blatantly abusing copyright for decades.<<< Interesting ... are the Arrangers themselves at risk for any music that wasn't licensed by the organization they worked for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Matczak Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 yes, as they are the 'arrange" component to the agreement..............in most cases when you submit for the rights to arrange and perform, they want the arrangers name, and the copyright information published on a full score sent back to them, to perfect the agreement,..................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlisko Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 >>>yes, as they are the 'arrange" component to the agreement..............in most cases when you submit for the rights to arrange and perform, they want the arrangers name, and the copyright information published on a full score sent back to them, to perfect the agreement,.....................<<< So ... to deepen the thought process further ... if the USMC and AF Drum Corps did not acquire the rights to the volume of charts penned by Tru Crawford and Keith Markey, (or any military music unit), the US Government would be at fault also? ... or, is there some special exemption in place? ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 >>>Those companies/individuals are absolutely at risk. And no, an agreement with ASCAP/BMI is not the same as securing synch/mechyanical rights. Like we've said before, drum corps in general has been blatantly abusing copyright for decades.<<< Interesting ... are the Arrangers themselves at risk for any music that wasn't licensed by the organization they worked for? Maybe. It depends on the contract between the arranger and the corps. It's possible to construct a contract that puts the arranging rights responsibility on the band/corps, but no arranger worth his salt would do this (at least not today). I do it all myself, and bill the band (or include the rights costs in my fee). That said, it's unlikely the copyright holders will go back and take action against arrangers for something done thirty years ago. Heck, there may even be a statute of limitations on such action....that's actually an interesting question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 >>>yes, as they are the 'arrange" component to the agreement..............in most cases when you submit for the rights to arrange and perform, they want the arrangers name, and the copyright information published on a full score sent back to them, to perfect the agreement,.....................<<< So ... to deepen the thought process further ... if the USMC and AF Drum Corps did not acquire the rights to the volume of charts penned by Tru Crawford and Keith Markey, (or any military music unit), the US Government would be at fault also? ... or, is there some special exemption in place? ... I know from my time in the US Army Band that the military pays a blanket fee for music use. It's important to remember that military bands do not charge appearance or event admission fees, and any recordings they make (on CD or whatever) are also free of charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlisko Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 >>>That said, it's unlikely the copyright holders will go back and take action against arrangers for something done thirty years ago. Heck, there may even be a statute of limitations on such action....that's actually an interesting question.<<< I asked from a personal perspective, knowing the deep pockets that some have to pursue legal action ... having written drum charts to accompany a myriad of tunes for corps I marched in and taught through several eras, everything written by me was "original" ... I never even considered looking at the percussion parts to any song or master arrangement ... would I, and the many who wrote original drum charts to many, many published musical works be at risk? This is good stuff ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigW Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 The one thing the band/educational music scene has been in trouble with for about 30 years has been photocopying of parts in various arrangements and compositions. Many companies now allow unlimited copies of their arrangements (Arranger's Publishing has for years) or with E-Printing, unlimited copies are of course okay- provided you buy the piece from them. It's been a nasty sticky wicket for HS bands- for instance, say you have 6 Euphoniums in your symphonic band and the music you got comes with 4 parts only? You have to write the publisher and literally request "official copies" at 2-3 dollars a copy. With large organizations that can bust a budget. My guess is now, you just say the heck with it even with older music and just buy the E-Print versions of the pieces so you can just make what you want legally once and for all. Rook would know all of this in detail, wish he'd drop by DCP more often than he does. This issue's ran up massive fines in some schools when the ASCAP cops show up. One day in HS around 1978ish one of the nearby HS got slapped with a 30K fine for unauthorized copies of music when ASCAP showed up unannounced. We literally filled trash barrel after trash barrel in panic, several of us and the Directors, going through everything and ditching the copies. That was my introduction to what all those teeny letters at the bottom of the music meant and to the whole intellectual property mess. Rook knows who I'm talking about- he went to school literally up the road- he'd have a good chuckle about the characters involved in that. When I left my last teaching job in a private school the school's principal flagrantly violated this stuff again and again. I warned her repeatedly she was playing with fire and didn't listen. When I left this school I discussed this issue with a lawyer (A story best told over craft beer or at a Brazilian steakhouse) and he told me, "How vindictive do you want to be?" I decided to leave well enough alone- the school shut down a couple of years later due to her incompetence and it didn't need my help. As I'm older... the sad thing is, if I were faced with that again- I'm thinking I might blow the whistle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 >>>Those companies/individuals are absolutely at risk. And no, an agreement with ASCAP/BMI is not the same as securing synch/mechyanical rights. Like we've said before, drum corps in general has been blatantly abusing copyright for decades.<<< Interesting ... are the Arrangers themselves at risk for any music that wasn't licensed by the organization they worked for? Possibly yes. See no one enforced stuff back then because you couldn't find it so easily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajlisko Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 >>>See no one enforced stuff back then because you couldn't find it so easily<<< Okay ... you lost me here ... licensing wasn't enforced because what couldn't be found easily? ... We all knew there were copyright laws back then ... we just never knew what they meant ... I always thought an original copyright was good for 17 years (that sound familiar to anyone?) ... the subject matter Big W and Adcock are disclosing is way beyond my comprehension ... and the layering between arranging, performing, syncing (still don't know what that means) and visual/movement vs. just the written score is mind boggling ... at least for me ... Just finished shoveling another 6" here in CT ... time for some nice red wine ... I might write a new solo tonight and copyright it ... not that anyone would ever use it ... it's just the principle ... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 >>>That said, it's unlikely the copyright holders will go back and take action against arrangers for something done thirty years ago. Heck, there may even be a statute of limitations on such action....that's actually an interesting question.<<< I asked from a personal perspective, knowing the deep pockets that some have to pursue legal action ... having written drum charts to accompany a myriad of tunes for corps I marched in and taught through several eras, everything written by me was "original" ... I never even considered looking at the percussion parts to any song or master arrangement ... would I, and the many who wrote original drum charts to many, many published musical works be at risk? In theory, yes. In practice, not likely. Percussion parts are still considered arranging. But the simple fact is it would cost the publishers more to go after old-school arrangers than it's worth. And as I said earlier, it's also dependedn on what kind of contract the arrangers had with the corps they were writing for (in all likelyhood, none at all). Then you have to factor in the corps may have folded...there's no well to tap. The irony in all of this is that we're going to end up right back where we were in the early 2000's...the Napster era, if you will. It won't help arrangers, but it's going to make access to existing recordings a hell lf a lot easier, even if technically llegal. It's already happening, in fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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