cfirwin3 Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 This is a simple exercise in reflection. How do we view judges? We often gripe about the disconnect between the criteria of the sheets and the elitism of judging that criteria... But do we actually believe that? So... Do the conclusions of adjudication reflect the heartfelt observations and convictions (not the wishful thinking) of the fans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummergirl Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Are the judges fans? Yes But the answer to the poll question is No. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, drummergirl said: Are the judges fans? Yes But the answer to the poll question is No. Do you feel that, in general, corps that score high or win don't deserve it? It's the conundrum of the 90's... People loved the Madison Scouts, but it's another thing to suggest that the Blue Devils and Cadets should have been bested by them. Edited July 2, 2017 by cfirwin3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummergirl Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 Just now, cfirwin3 said: Do you feel that, in general, corps that score high or win don't deserve it? No Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Windish Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 I voted YES. Certainly judges are fans. They have all spent years with this endeavor. I do not think more than a very few judges care who wins, but the reputation of each corps and prior success by the corps is an unavoidable influence upon every judge. My little group goes away from each event saying "The judges got it about right. They always do." The issue here, I believe, is there is so little difference of quality between all the top tier corps, it seems almost unfair to designate just one as "winner." There's some amazing talent on display out there. But, we really DO want, and need a ranking to drive everyone even higher. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, drummergirl said: No How do you reconcile that with your answer to the poll question? The judges are fans. They don't adjudicate in a way that meets fan convictions. Winning corps deserve to win. I'm not sure that those things are all compatible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfirwin3 Posted July 2, 2017 Author Share Posted July 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, Fred Windish said: I voted YES. Certainly judges are fans. They have all spent years with this endeavor. I do not think more than a very few judges care who wins, but the reputation of each corps and prior success by the corps is an unavoidable influence upon every judge. My little group goes away from each event saying "The judges got it about right. They always do." The issue here, I believe, is there is so little difference of quality between all the top tier corps, it seems almost unfair to designate just one as "winner." There's some amazing talent on display out there. But, we really DO want, and need a ranking to drive everyone even higher. I think the bigger issue is the difference between wishes and convictions. I remember walking away from Star Wars Episode 1 saying "that was great!"... But feeling convicted that it was actually crap. I wanted it to be great. I was certainly entertained by much of it, but I knew that it didn't hold up as a quality film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 I think the "fan" "judge" disconnect - for lack of a better term - is due to the sheets and not the judges "fan" perspective Sometimes fans "like" the completely package more or less - overlooking a serious flaw such as a weak drum line or terrible ensemble rips Or they may love the drill and forgive or not notice inconsistent foot technique, interval issues (most fans notice these only on stop-sets) or single players popping out of the ensemble musically (a big issue with this can be noticed by fans but the slighter issues, you need to be on the field) And the way the scores are weighted and sheets interpreted is sometimes lost on fans Personally feel it is more THIS than "judges aren't fans" 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, cfirwin3 said: I think the bigger issue is the difference between wishes and convictions. I remember walking away from Star Wars Episode 1 saying "that was great!"... But feeling convicted that it was actually crap. I wanted it to be great. I was certainly entertained by much of it, but I knew that it didn't hold up as a quality film. OMG we are Brothers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoastblue Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 22 minutes ago, drummergirl said: Are the judges fans? Yes But the answer to the poll question is No. This. The question is "loaded"as they say. When I judge, I go into judges mode. I think about the sheets, how I am going to put groups into each box, where in each box, etc. I am a fan in that incident that I want to be entertained; I want to enjoy it and reward it, to see the members confident and enjoying it. When an audience member, not judging, I am not in judges mode. I just want to be entertained and not responsible for justifying rank and rate. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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