afd Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) Ah. Another BD I don't know why they win all the time. It really gets old. And you sound frustrated. Edited July 9, 2017 by afd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candid Insight Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 My post was not relative to their overall scoring. It was citing specific captions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, Candid Insight said: Although I am new to DCP I have been involved in the activity as a marching member, instructor, arranger, and judge for over 4 decades (brass). Because of that, I have seen the transitions the activity has made and the posts in this thread reflect a breadcrumb trail of the progression, plus the diverse perspectives people have regarding the design changes we now see. Although I am an older fan, I appreciate most of the innovation that we are seeing. Park and play has become a staple for corps for the 'compulsory' sixteenth note segments seemingly written into all all brass programs. Some corps do it (play while not moving) more than others (as noted with Blue Devils). Even the 'walking to the next set' approach is not particularly offensive to me if well coordinated and not drawn out. What seems a bit unfair is when one top 5 corps (Corps A) walks to the next set for their transitions and does a ton of park and play while another top 5 corps (Corps B) delivers a continuous orchestrated and difficult visual design, and much less park and play, yet Corps B gets lower scores. This seems to reward a corps for attempting less. An example from 2016 is Crown versus Blue Devils. Both corps performed at an extremely high level. Crown had very little 'park and play', and no significant walking to the next set in their show. The Blue Devils had significant 'park and play' and quite a bit of 'less organized' transitions. I appreciated both shows very much, but it seemed Crown got less credit in the content areas, specifically lower scores in Visual Analysis and Music Analysis. From my perspective, it seems easier to perform while stationary and visual sets that are 'free form' act as almost as a 'break' from the visual being judged. Some people will disagree and cite Blue Devils' less organized transitions are part of their design and should get higher credit. I enjoy a difficult brass passage played well, and I think doing that on the move should get more credit. Personal preferences are huge and artistry is very subjective, so I know many people have a totally different take on this. I am not saying that Crown should have been above Devils in overall scoring. I am just pointing to those specific scores. In my opinion, the brass books and performance levels were equivalent and since Crown attempted more they should not (in my opinion) have been under Devils in those specific captions. Many of my friends are highly critical of the Blue Devils for doing less yet scoring more. Some of them actually LOOK for where the Devils 'do less', even timing the amount of the park and play segments. I try to look past the scores and just appreciate the incredible performances of all the corps. My thanks to the original poster - this thread was interesting to read. My question to you is this: Why aren't the show designers of today providing all of this with a more respectful attitude concerning comprehensible musical melody and musical phrasing; why sacrifice understandable music composition elements and replace it with runs, chords, and impacts which are completely and utterly dictated by the almighty visual art form? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afd Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, Candid Insight said: My post was not relative to their overall scoring. It was citing specific captions. You seem to say you are very involved as a designer and "judge". What did you judge as far as any DCI shows. I'm interested to know what you judged . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 15 minutes ago, Stu said: Really? It is rather impossible to enjoy sound production and performance that has no comprehensible musical phrasing, no musical melodic component to grasp, and is dictated by the sole purpose of keeping our attention glued to the visual stimuli. What we hear to day is an amalgamation of fast notes, Impact, chord, impact, decrescendo, fast notes, crescendo, chord, chord, Impact,... again all of which have no understandable 'musical' cohesiveness whatsoever but the sound does underpin the visual motion. I disagree, and we're not going to agree, so I'll leave it at that. I find both the shows of the 80s/90s and the 2000's to be equal in quality in regards to musical phrasing, musicianship, and enjoyment. But again, I doubt we're gonna ever agree on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, afd said: Ah. Another BD I don't know why they win all the time. It really gets old. And you sound frustrated. Good grief. Nobody is questioning their quality, and we do understand as to why BD has won so many rings. The question at hand is as to why the post-Y2K designs have gone the route of winning via 'progressing the art form into audience intellectual stimulation and academic edification' as opposed to pre-Y2K show design which tended to be winning via 'entertaining those who have spent the big bucks for tickets'. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afd Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Stu said: Good grief. Nobody is questioning their quality, and we do understand as to why BD has won so many rings. The question at hand is as to why the post-Y2K designs have gone the route of winning via 'progressing the art form into audience intellectual stimulation and academic edification' as opposed to pre-Y2K show design which tended to be winning via 'entertaining those who have spent the big bucks for tickets'. Huh? I'm sick of BD being criticized for being too out there like doing Cabernet Voltaire or Rite of Spring then doing a more traditional show this year. What do you want? Edited July 9, 2017 by afd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 1 minute ago, afd said: Huh? I was responding to your, "Another BD I don't know why they win all the time", statement. We all know why they win all the time; but that is not the issue within this thread. The issue is one of questioning show design, not winning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afd Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Stu said: I was responding to your, "Another BD I don't know why they win all the time", statement. We all know why they win all the time; but that is not the issue within this thread. The issue is one of questioning show design, not winning. Enough. I'm out of here. Like I've said. It's justs gets old. I've heard it year after year. It's a broken record. Edited July 9, 2017 by afd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Stu said: My question to you is this: Why aren't the show designers of today providing all of this with a more respectful attitude concerning comprehensible musical melody and musical phrasing; why sacrifice understandable music composition elements and replace it with runs, chords, and impacts which are completely and utterly dictated by the almighty visual art form? I take issue with your implication that these corps are doing a disservice to EVERYONE with their show design decisions. Stop. There is absolutely no evidence that a majority of DCI fans are unhappy with the direction of today's shows. Especially among the newer generation of DCI fans who much prefer modern day DCI to old. Maybe they're doing a disservice to you, and some of the others who share your views. But don't speak for everyone. Edited July 9, 2017 by Cappybara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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