Jeff Ream Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 5 minutes ago, StunnedMonkey said: Why would it be a disservice? DCI existed for 30+ years without amplification and electronic trickery. I don't recall anyone ever complaining about it being a disservice. It's band. Drums and brass. It doesn't (or shouldn't) need synths and mixers. however it did play to a declining audience base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby L. Collins Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 The front ensemble are perfectly capable of playing their marimbas, xylophones, glockenspiels, suspended cymbals, chimes, timpani and crotales without microphones and speakers, just like they did without issue for 25 years. All this BS about carpal tunnel and wear and tear on the instruments is little more than retcon to validate and justify how out of control it has become. There's an exponentially higher risk of electrocution today than a damaged wrist from playing arpeggios on a marimba...and the risk of electrocution isn't even that high. No, that's the same BS excuse as "bugles couldn't play in tune" to justify blowing a multi million dollar budget on soundboards and props. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby L. Collins Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: no it's a lazy and quite frankly insulting analogy. Pfft...only because you didn't think of it first. I've got YOUR number too, buddy. You're not insulted. You're just looking for something to report. Edited August 14, 2017 by Bobby L. Collins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said: The front ensemble are perfectly capable of playing their marimbas, xylophones, glockenspiels, suspended cymbals, chimes, timpani and crotales without microphones and speakers, just like they did without issue for 25 years. All this BS about carpal tunnel and wear and tear on the instruments is little more than retcon to validate and justify how out of control it has become. There's an exponentially higher risk of electrocution today than a damaged wrist from playing arpeggios on a marimba...and the risk of electrocution isn't even that high. No, that's the same BS excuse as "bugles couldn't play in tune" to justify blowing a multi million dollar budget on soundboards and props. actually to project properly in monster stadiums without amplification, they had to beat the living #### out of instruments not meant to have the #### beaten out of them. percussive knowledge could be your friend. i know probably now hundreds of former pit people with wrist issues because of what was needed to be done...and i'm a guy who helped spear head the petition against amps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, Bobby L. Collins said: Pfft...only because you didn't think of it first. I've got YOUR number too, buddy. You're not insulted. You're just looking for something to report. no offense, but comparing people to addicts is not my cup of tea, so no, i'm not mad I didnt think of it first. And for the record, I havent reported you once. I don't play that game, and had comments leveled at you edited by the moderators here. My number is to point out the many fallacies and insults your provide as a way of frocing what you want on everyone else. Your approach and delivery ruins any good you may have in your message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby L. Collins Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: actually to project properly in monster stadiums without amplification, they had to beat the living #### out of instruments not meant to have the #### beaten out of them. percussive knowledge could be your friend. i know probably now hundreds of former pit people with wrist issues because of what was needed to be done...and i'm a guy who helped spear head the petition against amps. I've got just enough percussion knowledge to know you're talking a lot of bollocks to fit your narrative. Most vets have knee and back problems as well. We going to sideline kids and sit them down in a concert arc to protect them from the dangers of the human body wearing out as they get older (which is EXACTLY what's going to happen as a result of all the gesticulating and rolling around)? Is that your initiative? Because you can't have one without the other. It's just a load of hooey, and people with common sense already know that. Edited August 14, 2017 by Bobby L. Collins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby L. Collins Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) Be advised Jeff, you're now on my ignore list. I don't have time to bandy crooked words with trolling contrarians not interested in rational discourse. Edited August 14, 2017 by Bobby L. Collins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby L. Collins Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Anyway OP, I've put a lot of thought and time into illustrating why I strongly believe a lot of potential was squandered and sacrificed for "evolution", and a few others put in zero thought and time into pretending to be offended by common sense and demonstrable truth. I hope ultimately your question has been answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortAndFast Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Bobby L. Collins said: A lot of fans, like addicts, won't even try to be objective, nor will they try to apply common sense to their rhetoric. As far as they're concerned, the modern activity is simply wonderful, educational and enriching, because George Hopkins says it's wonderful, educational and enriching. Critical thinking and objectivity is the way forward, not bootlicking and pandering to WGI and BOA. You keep saying "George Hopkins" - how many fans, let alone other corps' management & instructors, do you think listen to Hop these days? He's certainly not a person who is leading DCI creatively, and hasn't been for a long time. If you stop imagining that this has anything to do with a guy who advocated Bb two decades ago, it's easier to see that: - Most design and instructional staff use electronics, props, costumes, etc. year round in band & indoor programs. They favor these changes in DCI because these are the tools they are comfortable working with. - Current members are very happy with modern shows. That's why audition numbers are up and corps are filled quite far down in the rankings. Spend some time on reddit to get a clue what the current participants think. Heck, we even have new Soundsport and Open Class groups starting up and finding success - Genesis, which didn't exist a decade ago, was a semi-finalist this year. - Audiences have embraced modern shows that use the tools well, as reflected in attendance records throughout the summer. Shows that gratuitously use amps, props, narration, trombones, body movement, dance and costumes have been some of the most popular in the last 5 years. It's not all to my liking, and it's obviously not all to yours. But those are the objective facts about the state of the activity. Maybe you should apply some of that critical thinking to the question of whether the activity was healthier in 1997 (when it basically worked as you recommend) or 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby L. Collins Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) Oh I know about your group on Reddit, and what a CJ it is for amps and spandex. I also know that not ALL of the members of corps like the direction they are being led in on the field, but their choice is to either participate in their life-long dream, or don't. I had to make that same choice myself in my college marching band, a choice I still haven't come to terms with. You can't label concrete statements like what you've typed above as objective, OR critical thinking. I concede that not everyone is disenfranchised by the modern activity, and I never said otherwise. OF COURSE a lot of people posting here are fine with it, otherwise they wouldn't even be here. After all, this is one of the only outlets for drum corps fans, besides r/drumcorps. However, it should be much more telling that so many here are NOT fine with it, and it should also stand to reason that the vast majority of those who gave up on drum corps years ago as a result of this stuff aren't posting here. Stop trying to act like we're the minority simply because people are still attending shows, and try to consider what attendance would look like WITHOUT all the extra crud that drove everyone else away. I mean, what, would ticketholders today stop supporting drum corps if amplification and leotards were regulated or banned? Is that what you think would happen? Because the vibe we're getting is that drum corps should be supported no matter what's happening on the field.......right? Or is amplification and winking at cameras implicit in that mandate? Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even the trolls on here are entitled to their opinion......when they choose to actually opine rather than bait and flame. But if DCI and its patrons don't even want to explore the possibilities of what could have been (which essentially is the essence of this thread), then that's their loss. That's ALL of our loss, whether we like vocalists and dancing or not. Edited August 14, 2017 by Bobby L. Collins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts