Hook'emCavies Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Phantom Regiment performs "Women are from Venus" 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 41 minutes ago, GUARDLING said: Do you think with all of that it may at very least play a part with what a judge decides to put down in a score? No. Judges make comments all the time on tapes about all sorts of things. The numbers they put down are real. But those numbers are not related to attire and what you put on your scalp or the make up you wear, or don't wear, nor if you are hatless, or what the headgear is you have chosen for yourself. BD wins in all manner of attire. Cadets for 80 years finished 1st or 30th in the same Cadets styled uniform and shako. When they finished 30th, it wasn't the duds they had on, and when they won, it wasn't the duds and shako, and colors that did it either. There are Corps in World Class and the Open Class Division that have changed duds and headgear every season or every other season. The attire and headgear choices they make each and every season are irrelevant to their scores and placements. There is no connection whatsoever. Jersey Surf has gone mod in attire and throw back ( Bridgemania show, ring a bell ? ) and their scores and placements really did not move the dial for them at all. Attire and headgear are irrelevant to scores and placements... same as it ever was.( and as it should be, imo ) Edited August 14, 2017 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, BRASSO said: No. Judges make comments all the time on tapes about all sorts of things. The numbers they put down are real. But those numbers are not related to attire and what you put on your scalp or the make up you wear, or don't wear, nor if you are hatless, or what the headgear is you have chosen for yourself. BD wins in all manner of attire. Cadets for 80 years finished 1st or 30th in the same Cadets styled uniform and shako. When they finished 30th, it wasn't the duds they had on, and when they won, it wasn't the duds and shako, and colors that did it either. There are Corps in World Class Division that have changed duds and hats every season or every other season. The attire and headgear choices they make each and every season are irrelevant to their scores and placements. Completely, imo Ok .I will respectfully disagree. Youre leaving out the part when I said that if a corps chooses to make a uniform change to reflect a theme it will certainly make a difference. Color choices or equipment ( for guard ) also always plays a part Quick story ( sorry..lol ) wayyyyyy back in 1991 I was walking onto the field with the corps I taught. The chief judge greeted me , said hello and said WOW! if I could give you a perfect score tonight on those uniforms I would. You can bet you will hear the comments on your tapes..And I did. It was a very controversial choice in style and color I chose for the corps I taught and worked right from the 1st show.. even then it mattered if we were trying to make some kind of a statement. AS I said "if " a corps chooses to not make costuming a part of the production, especially for the corps proper is one thing, if they do quite another. Anyway thanks for the response Edited August 14, 2017 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnitzel Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, BRASSO said: No. Judges make comments all the time on tapes about all sorts of things. The numbers they put down are real. But those numbers are not related to attire and what you put on your scalp or the make up you wear, or don't wear, nor if you are hatless, or what the headgear is you have chosen for yourself. 2 I can assure you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that what a corps wears has everything to do with their assessments, particularly in visual captions and General Effect. One of the more interesting developments in the equation is that the more form-fitting garments are actually designed to allow for not only freedom of movement, but also the ability of judges to evaluate body articulation, position, and clarity of movement technique - exactly as in competitive dance/movement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Schnitzel said: I can assure you, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that what a corps wears has everything to do with their assessments, particularly in visual captions and General Effect. One of the more interesting developments in the equation is that the more form-fitting garments are actually designed to allow for not only freedom of movement, but also the ability of judges to evaluate body articulation, position, and clarity of movement technique - exactly as in competitive dance/movement. another thing mentioned alot, and if mentioned , you can bet it will be some sort of a reflection. Been my experience anyway, on both sides of that fence. Edited August 14, 2017 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, GUARDLING said: Ok .I will respectfully disagree. Youre leaving out the part when I said that if a corps chooses to make a uniform change to reflect a theme it will certainly make a difference. I heard you post that. I just disagree with it , that all. If attire and headgear had an impact in scores and placements, we'd have seen it demonstated in scores and placements. But we really don't. The two winningist Corps in DC history are the Blue Devils and the Cadets. Until 3 years ago, for over 35 years these 2 Corps could not be more different in attire and shako decisions. BD changed up every season, Cadets changed up not at all. Both were successful. Thats because BOTH Corps attire and headgear did not factor into their scores and placements in the least. The Cadets decided to change their iconic uniforms 2 seasons ago. This year they decided to change their their uniforms FOUR TIMES during the course of a show. If we believe that attire and headgear are responsible in any way for scores and placements, are we saying that the Cadets abandonment of their 80 year Cadet styled uniform is why their scores and placements are now the lowest in over 3 decades ? Well, thats not my sense. I don't buy that. The Cadets, like all Corps, rise or fall in scores and placements and the attire, headgear is irrelevant to those scores and placements. Academy had the best theme specific attire and headgear in all of DCI this season, imo. They moved down in placement/ scores from last season, and out of Finals. Thats because their attire/ headgear was irrelevant to their scores and placements this season... just like it was for all the World Class, Open Class, and Soundsport Corps and units. Edited August 14, 2017 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, BRASSO said: I heard you post that. I just disagree with it , that all. If attire and headgear had an impact in scores and placements, we'd have seen it demonstated in scores and placements. But we really don't. The two winningist Corps in DC historyI are the Blue Devils and the Cadets. Until 3 years ago, for over 35 years these 2 Corps could not be more different in attire and shako decisions. BD changed up every season, Cadets changed up not at all. Noth were successful. Thats because BOTH Corps attire and headgear did not factor into their scores and placements in the least. The Cadets decided to change their iconic uniforms 2 seasons ago. This year they decided to change their their uniforms FOUR TIMES during the course of a show. If we believe that attire and headgear are responsible in any way for scores and placements, are we saying that the Cadets abandonment of their 80 year Cadet styled uniform is why their scores and placements are now the lowest in over 3 decades ? I don't buy that. The Cadets, like all Corps, rise or fall in scores and placements and the attire, headgear is irrelevant to those scores and placements. You dont think those uniform changes in a show either helped or detracted from the program? You can disagree , that's fine, my experience has been the opposite , again " IF" costuming was made a point by a corps for a specific show they themselves have made it a focal point which means open to critique and value. Edited August 14, 2017 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnitzel Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 minute ago, GUARDLING said: You dont think those uniform changes in a show either helped or detracted from the program? I don't want this to be adversarial, and if you choose not to believe me, that's on you. But: costuming, props, guard equipment, etc. are all a significant part of a corps' assessment. Ask anyone in a corps or a staff member. There are reasons for the individual occurrences that have been suggested earlier. I'll give one example, and then you're on your own. The 2017 Cadets were forced to make several design changes over the season (both music & visual) to react to judge criticism/questions about how/why costumes were changed by different sections of the Corps. There has to be high production value in technique, musical and programming motivation, and logic in understanding/accessibility. Why would they even change costumes once, let alone twice, if it didn't matter in the scoring? Thousands of dollars and hundreds of man-hours went into that one aspect of the show. Ask any Cadets staff member - it's not like uniforms haven't been a hugely contested issue in Cadet-Land the past few years . . . it's not the only thing, but it certainly IS important. Don't believe me? That's okay. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 12 minutes ago, GUARDLING said: You can disagree , that's fine, Well thats at least refreshing to know.. haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Schnitzel said: I don't want this to be adversarial, and if you choose not to believe me, that's on you. But: costuming, props, guard equipment, etc. are all a significant part of a corps' assessment. Ask anyone in a corps or a staff member. There are reasons for the individual occurrences that have been suggested earlier. I'll give one example, and then you're on your own. The 2017 Cadets were forced to make several design changes over the season (both music & visual) to react to judge criticism/questions about how/why costumes were changed by different sections of the Corps. There has to be high production value in technique, musical and programming motivation, and logic in understanding/accessibility. Why would they even change costumes once, let alone twice, if it didn't matter in the scoring? Thousands of dollars and hundreds of man-hours went into that one aspect of the show. Ask any Cadets staff member - it's not like uniforms haven't been a hugely contested issue in Cadet-Land the past few years . . . it's not the only thing, but it certainly IS important. Don't believe me? That's okay. totally agree with you. Its been my experience for a long time as well and many staff within DCI 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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