Blue Devils in the Details 2023

[DWW11]

1 minute ago, ContraFart said:

You just personified why every BD hater exists on this forum. Putting winning over artistry or innovation is not what an champion should be about. Creating a show that fits the sheets for winning rather than creating a show that bring people in is what alienates people. 

You can honestly say that last year’s show lacked artistry?  Use of props over the last few years lacked innovation?  Did someone have strings on the field before Ghostlight, because I don’t remember seeing that.  

[jjeffeory]

1 minute ago, DWW11 said:

I asked a question earlier that went unanswered: why should BD take ANY risks if they keep winning?  

Everyone else you mentioned HAS to take some risks or try something new to try and beat them. 

Pretentious TITLES?  Seriously?  and, btw, last year’s props were BLUE and white. And this year they are all different colors. 😉

BD should take risks because that's what the leader is supposed to do to advance the pageantry and keep the activity alive. The sheets even talk about that, I believe.  Of course whatever BD does is considered innovative. Oh yes, hair flips. Innovation. Illuminated light post. Violins. Props. 

 

Bluecoats are taking risks. Boston is taking risks. Why not BD too?

Year, self-referential titles are pretentious. Tempus Blue in particular.  

Yay, they added BLUE to the white props last year! I FORGOT because I only saw the show once to give it a chance, then got a hot dog every other time I could have watched them, so I just heard the show. That was plenty.

Glad this year's Crayola props are colorful. I'm sure that's their source of innovation. Go back and look at the past ten years and see how many props were just white.

I'm not hating on the members, but I'm hating on the designers a bit. 

 

[DWW11]

1 minute ago, jjeffeory said:

BD should take risks because that's what the leader is supposed to do to advance the pageantry and keep the activity alive. The sheets even talk about that, I believe.  Of course whatever BD does is considered innovative. Oh yes, hair flips. Innovation. Illuminated light post. Violins. Props. 

 

Bluecoats are taking risks. Boston is taking risks. Why not BD too?

Year, self-referential titles are pretentious. Tempus Blue in particular.  

Yay, they added BLUE to the white props last year! I FORGOT because I only saw the show once to give it a chance, then got a hot dog every other time I could have watched them, so I just heard the show. That was plenty.

Glad this year's Crayola props are colorful. I'm sure that's their source of innovation. Go back and look at the past ten years and see how many props were just white.

I'm not hating on the members, but I'm hating on the designers a bit. 

 

I get that you aren’t hating on the kids. And i DO get your points. I may even agree with SOME of them. But i go back to the point i made a few days ago. If i had a winning formula, and the kids who work so hard benefit from that. i would ride that formula until it stopped winning.  

[ContraFart]

2 minutes ago, DWW11 said:

You can honestly say that last year’s show lacked artistry?  Use of props over the last few years lacked innovation?  Did someone have strings on the field before Ghostlight, because I don’t remember seeing that.  

Compared to the mind blowing concept of Bluecoats and the seamless storytelling of Boston, yes, I would say last year was about the color blue, whoopie. You can call it artistry, but it was way too high minded and pretentious. 

I even said BD has good use of props (I even specifically said 2019 and 2022), but what was really new? They still used the same exact model that they have been for years. 

Let me ask you a question, why do you think so many people dislike BD? I dont think there is a person that doesn't admit that there is excellence, but there is a HUGE divide between those who like BD and those who do not. When I argue about BD those who push back are 99/100 times BD alum. I know the most talented kids go there, but still they are the firebrand of Drum corps discussion on every platform. Why do you think that is? 

[DWW11]

1 minute ago, ContraFart said:

Compared to the mind blowing concept of Bluecoats and the seamless storytelling of Boston, yes, I would say last year was about the color blue, whoopie. You can call it artistry, but it was way too high minded and pretentious. 

I even said BD has good use of props (I even specifically said 2019 and 2022), but what was really new? They still used the same exact model that they have been for years. 

Let me ask you a question, why do you think so many people dislike BD? I dont think there is a person that doesn't admit that there is excellence, but there is a HUGE divide between those who like BD and those who do not. When I argue about BD those who push back are 99/100 times BD alum. I know the most talented kids go there, but still they are the firebrand of Drum corps discussion on every platform. Why do you think that is? 

Fair question. 

i am a Yankees fan. They get a lot of hate, or they DID get a lot of hate, because they won so much. Won, as in past tense, as they are abysmal right now. They weren’t an “innovative” baseball team. They just won a lot and had big names. 

i am a Dolphins fan, which means i have spent the better part of the last 20 years hating the Patriots. They weren’t innovative. They had a VERY predictable coach and a huge talent at QB. 

success breeds contempt.  

LOTS of people hate BD JUST because they win. A lot. IF BD designs to the sheets, Bluecoats could do that. BAC seems to be doing some of that now. Crown could, too. But if they decide they don’t want to do that, that doesn’t mean BD is wrong to do so. 

[jaylogan]

5 hours ago, DWW11 said:

 

I love the clip of the opener they have at the end of this video. Very powerful 

[resipsaloquitur]

48 minutes ago, ContraFart said:

Compared to the mind blowing concept of Bluecoats and the seamless storytelling of Boston, yes, I would say last year was about the color blue, whoopie. You can call it artistry, but it was way too high minded and pretentious. 

I even said BD has good use of props (I even specifically said 2019 and 2022), but what was really new? They still used the same exact model that they have been for years. 

Let me ask you a question, why do you think so many people dislike BD? I dont think there is a person that doesn't admit that there is excellence, but there is a HUGE divide between those who like BD and those who do not. When I argue about BD those who push back are 99/100 times BD alum. I know the most talented kids go there, but still they are the firebrand of Drum corps discussion on every platform. Why do you think that is? 

DCI calls itself Marching Music’s Major League™.  MLB is all about competition and winning that coveted World Series. Thirteen original founding member organizations formed DCI in 1971 to organize and unify leadership for youth-focused competitive drum corps events. Why are we up in arms about corps that are trying to do exactly that? Imagine if the Yankees one day decided to cease signing top players so other teams can win. Is that the spirit of the MLB? Don't flame the corps, flame the system.

Edited June 23, 2023 by resipsaloquitur

[resipsaloquitur]

1 hour ago, jjeffeory said:

There are specific elements that are reused a LOT. The trombone glissandos..

The Japanese Anime music ( which I like the original scores).

The devil speech

The pretentious show titles.

The props all being white.

The format of the shows and the design ideas are pretty similar from year to year.

That clutched arm thingy. I dunno is that some gypsy curse?

Bluecoats switch things up every year.

Boston switches things up every year.

Crown has been bouncing around with different ideals.

Cadets as well

Cavaliers are different.

SCV had a couple of similar years recently design-wise.

 

Admittedly these are stylistic choices that BD intended. Speaking of style,

Michael Jackson has the moonwalk

Beyoncé has the “Single Ladies” dance

Eddie Van Halen, has his signature solo and the Frankenstrat

Warhol, Monet, Degas, Guaguin, Dali, and Matisse all had styles that are congruent across their famous works.

When film producers and directors hire a guy like John Williams to score music for their motion picture they don't tell him to go out on a limb, find a new way to write music, and sound like Hans Zimmer. They don't do that because they hired JW for the sound, style, orchestration, and musical concepts he brings to a film. They could have hired Hans Zimmer if they wanted his unique style and sound. 

If kids are attracted to a corps' style, they have the choice to audition there. If they prefer, as you said, a corps that "switches it up," they should have a choice to go there. Who are we to limit their choices? Who are we to judge other wise? The BD kids I met in Laramie seem to be enamored of the BD style and are visibly happy and energized.

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by resipsaloquitur

[ContraFart]

22 minutes ago, DWW11 said:

Fair question. 

i am a Yankees fan. They get a lot of hate, or they DID get a lot of hate, because they won so much. Won, as in past tense, as they are abysmal right now. They weren’t an “innovative” baseball team. They just won a lot and had big names. 

i am a Dolphins fan, which means i have spent the better part of the last 20 years hating the Patriots. They weren’t innovative. They had a VERY predictable coach and a huge talent at QB. 

success breeds contempt.  

LOTS of people hate BD JUST because they win. A lot. IF BD designs to the sheets, Bluecoats could do that. BAC seems to be doing some of that now. Crown could, too. But if they decide they don’t want to do that, that doesn’t mean BD is wrong to do so. 

I disagree, its not THAT they win, its HOW they win. Did the Cavies have as much hate in the '00s? Were the Cadets somewhat polarizing because of their success or because of "He who shall not be named"? If I remember correctly, BD was a very popular champion in 94 because it was some time since they last won and they had a killer emotional show. I think the reason why maybe 96 and 99 were off was because of the ties. I think the current BD polarization started very early on in this run (with me personally it was 09) 

I am also a fins fan and I did not hate the Pats because they won, I hated them because they got caught cheating twice, had tons of season changing calls go their way and Bill Bellicheat is the most arrogant person in the world. They were also lucky enough to have the AFC east be so bad for 2 decades. 

I am also a HUGE heat fan and I am VERY happy for Denver. Jokic is probably the best big man I have ever seen and he is a super humble family man that you cannot help but root for. Also seeing a team win for the first time is an awesome thing. 

But lets go back to what you said earlier, "why change if it is working?" You are right. But if the only purpose is to win and kids only go there to win, then every accusation of designing to the sheets is well founded. And every rinse and repeat, and everything that even has the essence of pretentiousness is all that much more annoying. 

When Crown won their first championship, they came out the next year with trampolines. When Bluecoats won the first time, they came out next year with the music of an experimental rock band and the largest stage in drum corps history. They used their championship status to push the activity forward. BD simply rests on their laurels to recruit all of the ring chasing talent. THAT is why they are polarizing. That and that stupid side to side shimmy. 

 

[ContraFart]

20 minutes ago, resipsaloquitur said:

DCI calls itself Marching Music’s Major League™.  MLB is all about competition and winning that coveted World Series. Thirteen original founding member organizations formed DCI in 1971 to organize and unify leadership for youth-focused competitive drum corps events. Why are we up in arms about corps that are trying to do exactly that? Imagine if the Yankees one day decided to cease signing top players so other teams can win. Is that the spirit of the MLB? Don't flame the corps, flame the system.

You can never compare creating a professional sports roster to DCI recruiting. In professional sports there are elements to promote parity like drafts and salary caps. In DCI the kids can march wherever they want, which is why those who only go to BD to win a ring is that much more annoying.