denverjohn Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Ediker said: Wait until the day visual can be electronically enhanced the same way audio is today… when the three best rifles are videoed and duplicated across the field. Less talented guard people are often pushing props, hiding behind spoons, or spinning a cage while the more talented are tossing 12's and catching them behind their backs. Nothing is by accident in show construction these days. Go-pro videos often demonstrate how much time some soloist horn players get to rest behind props not participating in ensemble moments allowing them to prepare for their "winking" solos. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAvery Posted July 23, 2023 Author Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, denverjohn said: Less talented guard people are often pushing props, hiding behind spoons, or spinning a cage while the more talented are tossing 12's and catching them behind their backs. Nothing is by accident in show construction these days. Go-pro videos often demonstrate how much time some soloist horn players get to rest behind props not participating in ensemble moments allowing them to prepare for their "winking" solos. But those are obvious. Mic-ing just your 20 best brass players is not so obvious, it's deceitful. And the judges are in on the deceit by rewarding those brass ensembles. Apparently the highest scoring brass ensemble will not be the one with the best musicians, from top to bottom. It will be a battle to see which brass ensembles can successfully use and hide this technology. I am against the use of any technology that removes the performers individual responsibility. Edited July 23, 2023 by DAvery 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGCpimpOtimp Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, DAvery said: But those are obvious. Mic-ing just your 20 best brass players is not so obvious, it's deceitful. And the judges are in on the deceit by rewarding those brass ensembles. Apparently the highest scoring brass ensemble will not be the one with the best musicians, from top to bottom. It will be a battle to see which brass ensembles can successfully use and hide this technology. I am against the use of any technology that removes the performers individual responsibility. How many more people have to say it: The brass trophy is judged by a field judge, of which the amplification (or not) of the brass line has no effect. They are standing on the opposite side of the speakers, and are judging solely acoustic brass. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOC Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 24 minutes ago, denverjohn said: Go-pro videos often demonstrate how much time some soloist horn players get to rest behind props not participating in ensemble moments allowing them to prepare for their "winking" solos. When SCV had 12 of their 1st chair brass micked a few years back, they only played for about 4 minutes. They spent a lot of time moving props. The post season go pro videos are an eye opener for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAvery Posted July 23, 2023 Author Share Posted July 23, 2023 54 minutes ago, MGCpimpOtimp said: They are standing on the opposite side of the speakers, and are judging solely acoustic brass. So you saying the brass judge somehow ignores the amplified brass coming out of the speakers? Are they required to stand on the opposite side as the speakers? Do they then not judge soloists that are mic-ed? I am trying to envision a place during a performance where someone could stand to NOT hear the speakers. Even watching the performance from the back sidelines, you can hear the audio coming from the speakers. I understand they do not consider all the audio coming from the speakers in determining scores. I believe they can do this, they just currently do not. My question is why? And would still everyone's answer to the 2 questions I posed earlier. Question one: Can the brass judge distinguish which ensembles are mic-ing select players? While full field mic's are obvious, is this more recent phenomenon of the full time mic-ing select players within the ensemble even detectable? I would think a judge could distinguish if an ensemble was mic-ing 20 players in the ensemble, if they listen to the audio from the speaker and compare it to the acoustic sound. If they can't, then question 2 is pointless. Question two:. If there are two brass ensembles that are performing at the same level and one is mic-ed, who should be rewarded with a higher score? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGCpimpOtimp Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 1 minute ago, DAvery said: Question two:. If there are two brass ensembles that are performing at the same level and one is mic-ed, who should be rewarded with a higher score? The one that plays better... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAvery Posted July 23, 2023 Author Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, MGCpimpOtimp said: The one that plays better... Hypothetically speaking, what if they played the same? Edited July 23, 2023 by DAvery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGCpimpOtimp Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 Then it would be a tie? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilme861 Posted July 23, 2023 Share Posted July 23, 2023 1 hour ago, DAvery said: So you saying the brass judge somehow ignores the amplified brass coming out of the speakers? Are they required to stand on the opposite side as the speakers? Do they then not judge soloists that are mic-ed? I am trying to envision a place during a performance where someone could stand to NOT hear the speakers. Even watching the performance from the back sidelines, you can hear the audio coming from the speakers. I understand they do not consider all the audio coming from the speakers in determining scores. I believe they can do this, they just currently do not. My question is why? And would still everyone's answer to the 2 questions I posed earlier. Question one: Can the brass judge distinguish which ensembles are mic-ing select players? While full field mic's are obvious, is this more recent phenomenon of the full time mic-ing select players within the ensemble even detectable? I would think a judge could distinguish if an ensemble was mic-ing 20 players in the ensemble, if they listen to the audio from the speaker and compare it to the acoustic sound. If they can't, then question 2 is pointless. Question two:. If there are two brass ensembles that are performing at the same level and one is mic-ed, who should be rewarded with a higher score? Why would a Brass judge listen to the speakers (which like a backfield moment isn't the direct sound but an echo bouncing off everything) when they literally have the brass playing directly in front of them with NOTHING in between them? The same applies to a soloist. If they're around the judge, great the Brass judge can pick it up. But if the entire ensemble is playing or even just the mellos or trumpets or something, it's a VERY high chance they will listen to THAT instead of the solo as they want to see as much of the brass as possible during a show, not just one player. Put simply, the Brass judge is judging the sound coming out of the HORN. Not a synthesized sound coming out of a speaker. Other judges judge that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAvery Posted July 24, 2023 Author Share Posted July 24, 2023 2 hours ago, wilme861 said: Why would a Brass judge listen to the speakers (which like a backfield moment isn't the direct sound but an echo bouncing off everything) when they literally have the brass playing directly in front of them with NOTHING in between them? The same applies to a soloist. If they're around the judge, great the Brass judge can pick it up. But if the entire ensemble is playing or even just the mellos or trumpets or something, it's a VERY high chance they will listen to THAT instead of the solo as they want to see as much of the brass as possible during a show, not just one player. Put simply, the Brass judge is judging the sound coming out of the HORN. Not a synthesized sound coming out of a speaker. Other judges judge that. Who judges the sound coming out of the speakers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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