Separate sheets?

[cixelsyd]

I just read that the DCI all-age division plans to use DCA rules in 2024.  One of the differences between DCI and DCA is the "communication" subcaptions which make DCA judging sheets different from DCI.

Should that be preserved?

If I understand it correctly, the purpose of the "communication" subcaptions was to make DCA a different flavor of drum corps which was more fan oriented.  With recent seasons seeing the DCA audience evaporate to record low levels, it seems that "communication" is not achieving that objective anymore.  Would it be more practical to simply adopt DCI sheets going forward?  That would enable any DCI judge/panel to evaluate DCA corps without any supplemental training on sheet differences.

[BigW]

It's an excellent question and thought.

 

When that Communication subcaption started to show up, I asked questions to knowledgeable individuals. I never got a definitive, comfortable response.

 

What I did notice was that the Communication numbers largely parroted/mirrored Effect performance numbers. The last season or two, there was some independence, but not a lot.

It strikes me more as a way to weight Effect Performance numbers by a factor of two more than some kind of independent subcaption. 

Here's the loaded question:

 

Isn't the areas of Effect performance intertwined with 'communication' from the performer so tightly that they should be within the same subcaption?

I'd really like to hear a clear response to that that isn't smoke and mirrors and a big fat bowl of word salad served up with croutons and Balsamic vinaigrette. And don't forget my shredded cheese and Grilled salmon on top, please.

 

To sell a program, one HAS to communicate to the audience as well as all the other hype associated with Effect.

[C.Holland]

11 hours ago, BigW said:

It's an excellent question and thought.

 

When that Communication subcaption started to show up, I asked questions to knowledgeable individuals. I never got a definitive, comfortable response.

 

What I did notice was that the Communication numbers largely parroted/mirrored Effect performance numbers. The last season or two, there was some independence, but not a lot.

It strikes me more as a way to weight Effect Performance numbers by a factor of two more than some kind of independent subcaption. 

Here's the loaded question:

 

Isn't the areas of Effect performance intertwined with 'communication' from the performer so tightly that they should be within the same subcaption?

I'd really like to hear a clear response to that that isn't smoke and mirrors and a big fat bowl of word salad served up with croutons and Balsamic vinaigrette. And don't forget my shredded cheese and Grilled salmon on top, please.

 

To sell a program, one HAS to communicate to the audience as well as all the other hype associated with Effect.

ohhh cmon.  you know that's all malarkey.  caption in caption is malarkey.  if fan experience was actually considered instead of estimated, this circuit would be different. the shows would be different, the key elements of performance style would be different, the usage and components of "layered demand" would be different. 

 

its as much malarkey as the achievement numbers being capped by design numbers.   you'll never see an 18 achievement of a 14 design.  

Edited September 5, 2023 by C.Holland

[BigW]

The issue with fan reaction in DCA is a difficult one, Chris. I've talked about it in reviews. Does one think the Bucs would get any reaction in Clifton even when they deserved it? I've seen when they got crickets. Cabs at Big Sounds? I saw and heard the funeral a couple of years back when they won the week before championships. 

 

It's High School time in the audiences now. DCI is held at more 'neutral sites' now. Most corps have a broad national fanbase. Maybe DCA can develop more of that. To hinge a number based on crowd response at a DCA show at this time..... a very loaded proposition based on what's turned me off the last few years. 

 

I'd say that most judges have a feel for reaction based on the venue, and also how the crowd is laid out.

 

There's also a real negative placed on people in the crowd from reacting at a DCA contest, especially if it's not the home team. Sit down and shut up, basically.

 

I'd talk about how I subtly manipulated the crowd at Cavalcade Championships one year when I stumbled on something as I sat there, but I have to run to work.

Edited September 5, 2023 by BigW

[BigW]

1 minute ago, BigW said:

The issue with fan reaction in DCA is a difficult one, Chris. I've talked about it in reviews. Does one think the Bucs would get any reaction in Clifton even when they deserved it? I've seen when they got crickets. Cabs at Big Sounds? I saw and heard the funeral a couple of years back when they won the week before championships. 

 

It's High School time in the audiences now. DCI is held at more 'neutral sites' now. Most corps have a broad national fanbase. Maybe DCA can develop more of that. To hinge a number based on crowd response at a DCA show at this time..... a very loaded proposition based on what's turned me off the last few years. 

 

I'd say that most judges have a feel for reaction based on the venue, and also how the crowd is laid out.

 

There's also a real negative placed on people in the crowd from reacting at a DCA contest, especially if it's not the home team. Sit down and shut up, basically.

I'd talk about how I subtly manipulated a championship crowd at Cavalcade Championships after discovering something as I sat there, but I have to run to work.

[C.Holland]

welcome to 2023.  if you're going to give 5-7 peoples in polos the ability to "interpret others reactions" and assign a number to it, you should just remove the number.  Its not accurate.  stop worrying about the person in the stands giving you the "correct" number.  

the majority of people in the stands are now friends, family, and those adjacent to each group, while the old fans who were unaffiliated are literally dying off.  the students in the stands these days are so savvy that you need to stop treating them like they don't know anything.   this is a marketing issue, that if DCI can fix, it will, and it'll market this circuit to the actual ticket buyer...  the future member.  That's who pays the majority of the bills for corps, that's who get's catered to.  

if this is supposed to be "the fun circuit" or the "viewer friendly circuit" then it needs to actually be resonant with the attendees, and do something better in accordance with it.  Otherwise is the same smoke and mirrors as DCI... just wrapped up with a different bow. 

 

 

[Jeff Ream]

this topic has been discussed before, and i've even seen the sheet...it's really nothing more than more GE speak. and in GE, the audience is the person adjusicating the sheet that day. i know several years ago i raised a stink on here because listening to an effect judge talking about communicating to the audience...that was sitting on it's hands...yet the number was huge. bigger than the home team that had the crowd loud and proud. 

 

i get leaving the system in place for now. DCA has zero judges on the field, which score wise IMO hides a lot. in time i am sure there may be changes, but for now, i get the rationale for not totally upturning the boat

[BigW]

21 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

this topic has been discussed before, and i've even seen the sheet...it's really nothing more than more GE speak. and in GE, the audience is the person adjusicating the sheet that day. i know several years ago i raised a stink on here because listening to an effect judge talking about communicating to the audience...that was sitting on it's hands...yet the number was huge. bigger than the home team that had the crowd loud and proud. 

 

i get leaving the system in place for now. DCA has zero judges on the field, which score wise IMO hides a lot. in time i am sure there may be changes, but for now, i get the rationale for not totally upturning the boat

Yep. And a thank you to Chris for also pointing out the DCA audience.

 

What can make it more generally "fan friendly"? A lot of the thing that made DCA unique have been pretty much killed over the last ten years.

 

Other than Andrea Gwyn and the fellow at the Govies and The Tuna, what Drum Major in DCA right now has any real audience rapport? I can think of well over twenty, likely thirty DCA Drum majors that fronted their corps with panache, represented their corps well, and the audiences had real rapport with. Want a list? I'll give it if folks want one. What worries me is I'll miss someone who truly deserves to be on it.

 

The young lady at Les Stentors this year had more personality for God's sake. at least she's sincere and wears her heart on her sleeve like Maurice Legault, and the Drum Majors at Les Metro and Les Ambassadeurs.

 

Right now, A group could take a pole, stick an LED light and blink it to tempo and have someone with a controller change it at the right times for the corps. Let someone from the Front Ensemble count off when needed or let the Battery with a dut. Few actually conduct. What they do isn't conducting. It's keeping time like a metronome. I took enough conducting courses and performed under enough good Drum Majors and concert conductors (and bad ones too!) to know what's going on.

 

Those individuals personify the corps, and there's little or none of that happening now. No... guess what? Communication. No such thing as an individual serving as a direct conduit from the corps to the audience anymore in terms of passion and emotion.

 

Chris brought up the whole performer over book thought, and he's got a powerful point. I'll tell you what I know and what I think. The facts are that it happens under five percent of the time in just about any circuit. Most circuits now are encouraging people to use it when appropriate and to use it more often It's a very, very good idea and suggestion.

However... at the higher levels when it is used, it usually sparks a lot of yelling. Unless the design team knows they deliberately designed the show to be very simple and to make sure it's very well performed, understood, and sold wonderfully and isn't afraid to admit this to anyone, egos get stepped on, fits are taken. Insinuations are made to the effect that 'The show's been capped! We have no chance! How dare you insult our brilliant designers! How dare you commit this travesty upon our great Corps!"

 

I can think of some instances where Performer should have gone over book like say- 1991 to 1997 Madison and some DCA corps I'm afraid to mention here because I'm sure it would raise a rotten stink.

 

And so, the game goes on with that issue, Chris. It's frustrating. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeff Ream]

the activity at large has moved away from personality driven crowd response. not sure how to put that genie back in the bottle because honestly......and i know this will offend...to the world at large we're just band. this aint the 60's anymore...there's way too much competition for the entertainment dollar. Sure i considered driving north to finals...and after factoring in the cost of divorce, it was far easier to sit at home and watch it online ( and great job Box 5).

 

i didn't watch prelims. i went to a Penn State game with 110,746 other people. finals afternoon we went to the pool. my neighbors played golf and then streamed netflix. drum corps will never be community based draw in the town to the local show like it was decades ago. kids marching today like the shows being put out there or they wouldn't march it. and many kids will just do their high school band to get their fix and save a lot of money and time.

 

of the dca shows i saw in person, i found stuff to like in every one of them that didn't require a Jimmy, George or Butch to turn around after every song. i didn't know every tune. Hell i loved what Bucs did with the guitar. often it's how the stuff is designed is the pro or con, not the tools used to make it.