1977 Bridgemen

[johnric]

well at least when he added it...... he did preface that it is

"One veteran's insight into the years 1964-1987".

I'm taking it off now myself.

Edited January 25, 2007 by johnric

[PR_ducky]

After reading alot of this, and only previously knowing a few of the details, I am glad that over the next 12 years DCI grew up and learned not to punich an entire corps for a few cheating kids.

I am not sure how aware the Bridgemen were of their overage members, but when SCV was found to be marching overage members in 89 (DCI week) They expelled the kids and were allowed to compete.

I know SCV was not at fault as the kids were from the UK and had expertly forged documents.

It would have been a shame if they had not been allowed to compete.

Even though it would have given Regiment (and me) the win, it would not have been worth it without SCV there.

Anyone know anymore details on how aware the Bridgemen were of their members being overage?

[overthehillDM]

Guys ... Help me out. There are a couple of things I just don't understand here ...

Which is why it can be found on your website on the "History of the Bridgemen" page? I found it (as of today) at:

http://www.bridgemen.com/corps_history_recall.htm

And, according to this thread, you've had it on your site now for somewhere around 3 years, but it's not sanctioned by the corps?

That's a very concilliatory apology that I'm sure will be taken to heart by everyone who reads it ... Particularly the Regiment people who seemed to take offense at your corps' web site. I applaud your forthright attitude and willingness to take responsibility on behalf of your corps.

The part that I don't understand is that the Bridgemen have published this essay on the history portion of the corps' web site that was written by someone you say was a short-timer in the organization, sourced from a web site that doesn't seem to exist any more. At the same time it's been on what most people would believe is the main marketing and information outlet for The Bridgemen for at least three years. It is offered on the site as a representation of events in the Bridgemen's history throughout the years. Now, suddenly, you make an announcement on behalf of your entire organization, past and present, renouncing the piece as vitriolic, hateful, and juvenile, and not representative of the Bridgemen Organization's true history or values.

Surely, after all this time, you have to expect people to wonder about the motivation for, what on the surface looks like, an attempt to distance yourselves from views and opinions promoted by the Bridgemen Organization for this long a period in time. Especially since the item in question is still on your web site?

Again, it's all very confusing. Sorry if I misinterpreted any of this.

By the way and for what it's worth ... I found the ending of the essay kind of touching.

The article itself was written several years ago, prior to the formation of the Bridgemen Organization, and the latest version of the Bridgemen Drum & Bugle Corps. Although I am not an officer of the Bridgemen Organization's Board of Directors, it is my belief that the history was included on our site, to offer a closer look at the Bridgemen experience, as it does provide a great deal of information about the history of the corps.

My post of yesterday contained an error in that it was only the "offensive remarks" that were removed from the essay, NOT the entire account that was written. I apologize for any confusion. (EDIT: John Riccardi cleared up the confusion in a few previous posts, as of today, 1/25/07 - JJ)

The overall account of the Bridgemen History, from this one person's perspective, was fairly accurate, in my opinion.

I don't believe there were any other remarks written in this essay that were offensive toward anyone. I believe that I had addressed this issue (regarding the remarks about Phantom Regiment), in another thread on DCP, a few years ago. When I saw this thread yesterday, I felt compelled to address the issue, once again, to the best of my abilities. I responded rather hastily, from my heart, between classes at the school where I teach.

I must also add that although the resurgence of the Bridgemen has been in progress since 2003, I'm sure you are all aware of the difficulties involved with a project of such great magnitude! Now, it is 2007, and our project is still a work-in-progress, like anything in life. But, for the record, we have come incredibly far in a short three and a half years! Anyone who saw our performance at DCI East, and the amazing crowd response, can attest to that! And this year will be even better! Significantly better!!!

In regard to the present leadership team of the Bridgemen I will say this...

We have an incredibly caring, and extremely competent management team in place! They have done an outstanding job, since we started this journey almost four years ago. From our Executive Director for the Bridgemen Organization, John Riccardi, to our Corps Executive Director, George Lavelle, and Corps Business Manager, Nancy Ducharme, and throughout the entire group of board members, and corps administrative team members...

All have guided us in a very positive, and uplifting direction, and we couldn't ask for a better group of individuals to lead us! And we are also blessed with a fantastic group of alumni supporters, and corps members, to complete the picture.

We are blessed to have some of the finest people anyone could ever ask for, and I am proud and honored to call them all my brothers and sisters.

I know it sounds hokey, but it's true.

Hope that you can come out and see us this year! It's really going to be quite special.

For the Bridgemen and our fans...

and for drum corps fans everywhere.

HYPE!!!

Thank you.

Jim Jordan

Edited January 25, 2007 by overthehillDM

[overthehillDM]

After reading alot of this, and only previously knowing a few of the details, I am glad that over the next 12 years DCI grew up and learned not to punich an entire corps for a few cheating kids.

I am not sure how aware the Bridgemen were of their overage members, but when SCV was found to be marching overage members in 89 (DCI week) They expelled the kids and were allowed to compete.

I know SCV was not at fault as the kids were from the UK and had expertly forged documents.

It would have been a shame if they had not been allowed to compete.

Even though it would have given Regiment (and me) the win, it would not have been worth it without SCV there.

Anyone know anymore details on how aware the Bridgemen were of their members being overage?

This was explained earlier in this thread by Tom Kaye, one of my Bridgemen brothers.

Here's the condensed version...

Two people were turning 22 on August 1, 1977.

They marched until July 30, 1977.

We replaced both individuals, on July 31, 1977.

DCI informed us the day before prelims that we were DQ'd for having overage members that had marched during the season. We competed at all shows on tour right up until prelims, and then they realized that we had broken the rules. At least that's what I know about it. It was an ugly experience, but like many things in this world, it taught us a lot about life, and all of its trials and tribulations!

So, you are correct in that DCI changed its policy by 1989, allowing SCV to compete. I'm glad that they didn't have to go through what we did back in 1977.

[attreides]

I'm guessing that "A Little Bit of Bridgemen History" was an article written in the year 2000 or 2001?

Because of the questionable comments in it, it was replaced by the writings of 3 of our esteemed alumni, which was written for Drum Corps World and Steve Vickers' "A History of Drum & Bugle corps, Vol. 2" book, published by Sights & Sounds.

When I became involved with the new website launch of bridgemen.info, I wrote new articles (like Open House of 2004) and added this History article, but cut out his pokes at other corps.

With the relaunch of bridgemen.com in late June or early July of 2006, the DCW writing was lost for a time and the shortened version of that article went up temporarily.

Let me repeat: the shortened version went up.

George located the DCW writing a few months back then I added to it so the story didn't have an unhappy ending anymore. And so that it chronicled the new era of the Organization.

I should've dumped that old article, but forgot about it. Sorry if anyone was offended by its reappearance.

I was a big fan of junior drum corps before I ever put on a yellow coat and went back to being a big fan of junior corps when I aged out.

In all my writing for the Bridgemen websites, I've always been careful to treat all other corps with respect.

I follow modern drum corps and look forward every year to the new shows and innovations of The Devils, Vanguard, Cavies, Phantom, Scouts, Cadets, Crossmen, Boston, etc. Personally I like DCI and applaud their efforts to try to grow the activity.

Only a fraction of 1% of people follow the drum corps activity. I got into the publicity side of the Bridgemen to help the Organization, but also to help promote the activity in a small way.

My opinion of the D/Q is that it was the fault of individuals in authority positions. I blame Pesceone and the Directors of some corps, not the corps themselves. I'm a big fan of the corps whose directors lodged the complaint against the Bridgemen in 1977. I can pull out decades worth of memorabilia from those corps to prove it.

No corps should EVER have been disqualified in the DCI era of junior corps. It was an archaic leftover of the American Legion and VFW judging circuits. Many think AL & VFW circuits were corrupt old folks who pushed their own agendas and showed favoritism.

Anyone who says that any corps deserved to be disqualified is out of touch with reality.

Disqualifications were an abuse of authority that never should have happened in the first place. When the summers of over a hundred kids could be thrown in the garbage, it's obvious higher-ups are abusing their authority.

Notice no corps have been disqualified over the last few decades? Most all of the major junior corps that we love have had overage members in them. I've spoken to dozens of former members who laughed about it.

Yet no D/Q happened. Why? Because this activity is supposed to be about helping youth to learn valuable life lessons. Work hard together in a common cause, while developing lifelong friendships, and become better people on the journey

No disqualifications proves that DCI learned the lesson.

Edited January 26, 2007 by attreides

[A27Lancer]

Oh, how I wish things in my life were different and I could come down to Bayonne and help out in some way with your diligent efforts to continue the resurrection of one of my favorite corps. I had a lot of ties to Bridgemen, having been a member of the I.C. Reveries when Larry Kirchner came aboard as our arranger and frequent technician (check out "From the Pressbox" World Open prelims 1974 brass execution scores sometime).

I also had the pleasure of teaching Avant Garde when many Bridgemen staff members had a hand in writing parts of their music show, and toured with the corps many times.

Although fierce rivals on the field, as a member and, later, instructor, with 27th, all my experiences with both Bridgemen's staff and members were great ones. Fun to be around, respectful, (irreverant too, but in the best sense) and a wonderful bunch of people.

Best of luck in your endeavors!!

[attreides]

Oh, how I wish things in my life were different and I could come down to Bayonne and help out in some way with your diligent efforts to continue the resurrection of one of my favorite corps. I had a lot of ties to Bridgemen, having been a member of the I.C. Reveries when Larry Kirchner came aboard as our arranger and frequent technician (check out "From the Pressbox" World Open prelims 1974 brass execution scores sometime).

I also had the pleasure of teaching Avant Garde when many Bridgemen staff members had a hand in writing parts of their music show, and toured with the corps many times.

Although fierce rivals on the field, as a member and, later, instructor, with 27th, all my experiences with both Bridgemen's staff and members were great ones. Fun to be around, respectful, (irreverant too, but in the best sense) and a wonderful bunch of people.

Best of luck in your endeavors!!

Thanks Jimmy H. The 27th Lancers were a GREAT corps back in the day. I remember standing on my seat in front of the judges box in Clifton, NJ at the Garfield Cadets show and cheering like a madman several times for the '80 Lancers. :)

I miss seeing them on the field.

I wish I'd known 2-7 let a few non-alumni march in the 1994 Reunion Corps. I would've turned up begging for a spot.

Back in '81, Hoffman told us that 2-7 had loaned us money for our home show. That helped us to focus on improving ourselves rather than get caught up in the rivalry. Clearly the Lancers Organization was a class act. B)

[A27Lancer]

-----NAH!! B)

No begging necessary, we would have loved to have you! As I've stated before, the 1994 reunion corps was extra special because soooo many people who had not had the opportunity to march while the corps was competing, for whatever reason, finally got to wear the uniform and take pride in being a part of a legend.

Somewhere, there's a phenomenal picture of 27th and Bridgemen's drumlines showing exuberant comeraderie at a retreat. Someone please post here...

[john2780]

That's how I remember it, too, Jim!

That was a very unfortunate incident after 1978 finals, and both corps made every attempt in 79, and 80, to smooth things over. What transpired during those two years, (my last two with the junior corps version of the Bridgemen), was a friendly, and respectful relationship between the two corps. In addition to Larry, ( he played baritone) and the individual from Phantom, exchanging uniforms at one of the shows, both Brad, Phantom's DM, (sorry, his last name escapes me, also), and myself, exchanged our hat/helmet, with each other, and a photograph was also taken, and placed on the front page of Drum Corps World!

After 1978, I believe we maintained a very good relationship with Phantom, at least while I was there.

I also agree with the post that Tom Kowalak made, earlier in this thread, back in 2004. Tom is a charter member of St. Andrew's Bridgemen, and has been a major catalyst for the Bridgemen, througout our history from 1965 until the present!

The events of 1977 were horrible for the Bridgemen. Please understand that mistakes were made, but please don't make us out to be something evil! As Tom stated, we were a bunch of kids, and we suffered through a very PAINFUL experience, that I wouldn't wish upon anyone. As I'VE stated before, most of us didn't even have a CLUE as to what happened, our average age was about 16 or 17 yrs. old!!! We just wanted to compete, and have fun!

*TO ROCKETMAN and ALL PHANTOM REGIMENT MEMBERS, PAST & PRESENT:

On behalf of the entire Bridgemen Family, I would like to apologize for the very classless, and insensitive remarks that were posted on that since-retired Bridgemen History page. The article was written by someone that was only affiliated with the Bridgemen for a very short time, and this person allowed their own, bitter, vitriol to be presented in a very juvenile, and hateful manner. Once we realized our mistake, the article was removed.

I can assure you, as Jim Dugan, and Tom Kowalak have already stated, that the animosity between the two corps was rectified about 28 years ago, and the Bridgemen, and our members, have a great deal of respect and admiration for the Phantom Regiment Drum and Bugle Corps!

Wishing you much continued success!

Yours in drum corps spirit,

Jim Jordan

Bayonne Bridgemen

77, 78, 79, 80, 05, 06, 07

Jim,

As always my friend, You are still a class act !!!!!

John

[johnric]

-----NAH!! B)

No begging necessary, we would have loved to have you! As I've stated before, the 1994 reunion corps was extra special because soooo many people who had not had the opportunity to march while the corps was competing, for whatever reason, finally got to wear the uniform and take pride in being a part of a legend.

Somewhere, there's a phenomenal picture of 27th and Bridgemen's drumlines showing exuberant comeraderie at a retreat. Someone please post here...

the one where they are all arm in arm.. and they are Lancer,Bridgemen,Lancer, Bridgemen and so on..... thats the two corps bass drum lines. I'm almost positive it was taken in 1983. I'll find a copy of it.